Warhammer draws first blood. WoW concedes ground, but should it?

[Vinadil]

I think right now people in WAR are confusing Gear dependency with Level dependency.  Sure gear makes a difference, especially between say 7 and 8 or 8 and 10.  But, once you hit T3 it really becomes about Abilities more than Gear.  So, a level 28 will generally kill a level 22 even in the same gear because their abilities (if used correctly) give them an advantage.

I think that is one reason people say that gear won't make AS much a difference in the late game.  Once we all hit 40 we all have the same abilities.  Sure gear will affect a bit of damage and HP, but you have to go a Loooooooong way to hit WoW-esque gear dependence.

[Triforcer]

If you believe the friend of a friend of a random anonymous Gamespot poster, things are going great!

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/warhammeronline/show_msgs.php?topic_id=m-1-45871147&pid=520538

[Khaldun]

I think right now people in WAR are confusing Gear dependency with Level dependency.  Sure gear makes a difference, especially between say 7 and 8 or 8 and 10.  But, once you hit T3 it really becomes about Abilities more than Gear.  So, a level 28 will generally kill a level 22 even in the same gear because their abilities (if used correctly) give them an advantage.

I think that is one reason people say that gear won't make AS much a difference in the late game.  Once we all hit 40 we all have the same abilities.  Sure gear will affect a bit of damage and HP, but you have to go a Loooooooong way to hit WoW-esque gear dependence.

A level 65 in WoW who is geared up the wazoo will probably get slaughtered by a level 70 in greens. If the issue is "How much is WAR like WoW in terms of gear dependency?" introducing level into the picture doesn't answer the question.

[Lantyssa]

Gear helps, and abilities or lack thereof too, however it is possible for a character a few levels lower to win in a straight up fight.  A lot of it is situationally dependent.  Knowing a class well, and how to put yourself in those situations, does make a difference.

[Azazel]

not a whole lot you can do to make a map like that look different than AB

You must be joking.
A few things I can think of offhand:
<snip>
Be real, this thing's a straight up copy.

Not a whole lot you can do to make a map like that looks like AB look different to AB?

Maybe start by not making it look like AB then? Seriously.
This is the Fantasy Warhammer MMO, sure. But borrow and steal a few ideas from elsewhere in the GW catalogue. 40k, since it's also skirmish based. Necromunda. GorkaMorka. Mordheim. Inquisitor. White Dwarf Magazine. Lord of the Rings Fantasy Battle Game.

Seriously - GW is a company that makes tabletop battle games, the majority of which are skirmish based. Do you have any idea how many scenarios and battle maps they've designed and published over the last 20 years? And Mythic comes up with AB v1.5?

Looking slightly outside the box is obvious game design.

 

[schild]

How many Warhammer maps does AB look like? 50? 100?

Just wondering.

[Velorath]

Yeah, Blizzard stealing from their competitors, improving the concepts and polishing them until they shine is hardly a new thing.
Doesn't seem to have done them any harm so far.

It's not so much just that they're doing it, but they don't typically just come out and announce that they're making plans to take concepts from a game the less than a month after said game releases though.

[Mrbloodworth]

not a whole lot you can do to make a map like that look different than AB

You must be joking.
A few things I can think of offhand:
<snip>
Be real, this thing's a straight up copy.

Not a whole lot you can do to make a map like that looks like AB look different to AB?

Maybe start by not making it look like AB then? Seriously.
This is the Fantasy Warhammer MMO, sure. But borrow and steal a few ideas from elsewhere in the GW catalogue. 40k, since it's also skirmish based. Necromunda. GorkaMorka. Mordheim. Inquisitor. White Dwarf Magazine. Lord of the Rings Fantasy Battle Game.

Seriously - GW is a company that makes tabletop battle games, the majority of which are skirmish based. Do you have any idea how many scenarios and battle maps they've designed and published over the last 20 years? And Mythic comes up with AB v1.5?

Looking slightly outside the box is obvious game design.

 

Well, that map also plays completely diffrent.

[Arthur_Parker]

It's not the first time Mythic have ripped off ideas from WoW.

Check out this map.

[Fordel]

Man, that's old, like extra O's oooold. The old keep designs were so much shit 

[rk47]

I think right now people in WAR are confusing Gear dependency with Level dependency.  Sure gear makes a difference, especially between say 7 and 8 or 8 and 10.  But, once you hit T3 it really becomes about Abilities more than Gear.  So, a level 28 will generally kill a level 22 even in the same gear because their abilities (if used correctly) give them an advantage.

I think that is one reason people say that gear won't make AS much a difference in the late game.  Once we all hit 40 we all have the same abilities.  Sure gear will affect a bit of damage and HP, but you have to go a Loooooooong way to hit WoW-esque gear dependence.

A level 65 in WoW who is geared up the wazoo will probably get slaughtered by a level 70 in greens. If the issue is "How much is WAR like WoW in terms of gear dependency?" introducing level into the picture doesn't answer the question.

WoW does not have bolster.

[Azazel]

How many Warhammer maps does AB look like? 50? 100?

Just wondering.

The level of your Warhammer fanboism perplexes me.

The correct answer would be "I can't actually think of any that look like AB".

[schild]

It's not fanboism, it's a lack of faith in Blizzard to ever produce anything remotely original.

Azazel, I don't even play tabletop Warhammer nor care for nearly any of the scenarios in WAR, if you've actually been following the WAR forum. But the fact remains that Warhammer (the tabletop game) has been around for long enough that every single possible map and configuration has been done umpteenth times. Sure, the tabletop game has some verticality that WAR will never really have, but at the same time, your "I can't actually think of any" merely denotes a faulty logic. I can't either, but I'd still wouldn't bet against it just knowing how many games have been played and how many Games Workshop has sketched out at their office. It's probably a number between Way Too Many and "Freakish." And I'd bet that Mythic had access to whatever was necessary for the War portions of the game (and even the PvE stuff).

[Simond]

It's not fanboism, it's a lack of faith in Blizzard to ever produce anything remotely original.

"Good" is better than "original".

[Lakov_Sanite]

It's not fanboism, it's a lack of faith in Blizzard to ever produce anything remotely original.

"Good" is better than "original".

Actually blizzard announced at blizzcon that their next MMO was going to be a completely new universe

[Merusk]

It's not fanboism, it's a lack of faith in Blizzard to ever produce anything remotely original.

"Good" is better than "original".

Actually blizzard announced at blizzcon that their next MMO was going to be a completely new universe

They're probably sick of "But in the single player game..." being thrown in their face after 4 years. 

[Calantus]

They first need to deemphasize arenas.  Go ahead and give discounts using scores from Arena, but stop locking out the good stuff to purely BG players.  There is no need for it.

Also, I'd like to see a BG that has elements from the original Warcraft games.  Start each side on opposite ends of the map and allow them to activate different nodes along the way for resources, better NPCs, better technology, etc.  Each side can use tactics to undermine those nodes from behind or just put a full frontal assault (exposing their backsides, etc.)

Maybe that's the idea on that outdoors PvP area (that'd be great if it is.) 

Fuuuuck yoooou! What they should be doing is cutting out BGs so I don't have to play them ever again.

[schild]

Actually blizzard announced at blizzcon that their next MMO was going to be a completely new universe

That means it won't be Diablo, Warcraft or Starcraft.

It doesn't mean they won't be ripping off someone else (please ripoff Planescape).

[Azazel]

It's not fanboism, it's a lack of faith in Blizzard to ever produce anything remotely original.

Azazel, I don't even play tabletop Warhammer nor care for nearly any of the scenarios in WAR, if you've actually been following the WAR forum. But the fact remains that Warhammer (the tabletop game) has been around for long enough that every single possible map and configuration has been done umpteenth times. Sure, the tabletop game has some verticality that WAR will never really have, but at the same time, your "I can't actually think of any" merely denotes a faulty logic. I can't either, but I'd still wouldn't bet against it just knowing how many games have been played and how many Games Workshop has sketched out at their office. It's probably a number between Way Too Many and "Freakish." And I'd bet that Mythic had access to whatever was necessary for the War portions of the game (and even the PvE stuff).

See, the problem with your paragraph, is while they may/probably have run games on maps similar to AB, they have run hundreds or more likely thousands of games on maps that work well yet don't look anything like AB. I'd also agree with you that Mythic has or should have access to whatever at GW they like, which is why it perplexes me so much that they came up with fucking Arathi Basin 1.5.

It's not about Blizzard here, their orginality, of lack therof. I'm firmly in the camp of "Blizzard ripped off GW for Warcraft" camp as much as I'm in the "GW rips off everything they can" camp as far as either IP being remotely original. It's about how with thousands (I think we can agree) of GW PVP maps (thats what the TT Game is- PVP) at Mythic's disposal, they still came up with AB 1.5.

[lamaros]

Do please point me to something, anything, that is wholy original and has not 'ripped off' any prior work in some regard.

Really who gives a shit.

[Khaldun]

The invention of fire was a fuckingly amazing original thing. Around the same time, I've heard it rumored, Og the Caveman came up with a story called "Boy Meets Girl, Loses Girl, Gets Girl Back". It was awesome.

The point is not originality, it is execution. So far that's Blizzard 1, Mythic 0.2, Funcom -2.5.

[Hawkbit]

Newton!   Leibniz!
Newton!   Leibniz!

[Fabricated]

My work here is done.