World of Tanks

[WayAbvPar]

After about ten I was numb and curious how long it could go on. IIRC my WN8 for the session was over 2k too. Pubbies hate to win.

[Furiously]

I had my 95 down to a 10% win-rate. It's a damn hard tank to use on a lot of the maps.

[Furiously]

After about ten I was numb and curious how long it could go on. IIRC my WN8 for the session was over 2k too. Pubbies hate to win.

I have a suspicion that there is a non-insignificant portion of the user base who tries to die early to get to their next double.

[Sir T]

Its an efficiant use of your time to cycle through all your tanks every 5 minutes and eliminate the ones that win from the cycle every round.

[Nebu]

Its an efficiant use of your time to cycle through all your tanks every 5 minutes and eliminate the ones that win from the cycle every round.

I can't play like this.  When I play, I try my best to stick to 3 or 4 tanks a play session.  Otherwise it's tough for me to really get the best out of each tank. 

[angry.bob]

After about ten I was numb and curious how long it could go on. IIRC my WN8 for the session was over 2k too. Pubbies hate to win.

I have a suspicion that there is a non-insignificant portion of the user base who tries to die early to get to their next double.

This is exactly what I did until I came back and started playing a few weeks ago. To advance the fastest down all the trees of all the nations at once I would play extremely aggressively and try to get at least one kill before I died. The round for me would last a couple of minutes and my team would either lose and I'd get shit XP along with everyone else (prior to that heroic resistance bonus whatever) or they'd win and I'd get good XP. about 75% of what I would get in a 10 minute winning match playing well. I was denounced here as being insane and my method making no sense whatsoever.

But it a HUGE part of the reason why I have like 25,000 games and a 49/49/2 win/lose/draw rate. At this point getting it to go up or down is like trying to steer an iceberg.

[Amarr HM]

Makes sense to do that, but not exactly playing in the spirit of the game. Although if everyone bumrushed with you, then it's a viable tactic.

[Merusk]

The "spirit of the game" is "grind until you get to the end of the tree, then start playing for realsies." Just like any MMO game with a tiered structure.  If it wasn't then the higher-tier tanks wouldn't be so superior.

[Amarr HM]

Would that not be the Modus Operandi? Or just a general behaviour pattern of MMO gamers. The spirit of the game would be to provide as much as assistance to win as a team. The rewards for winning supplementing your long term goals.

[Nebu]

The "spirit of the game" is "grind until you get to the end of the tree, then start playing for realsies." Just like any MMO game with a tiered structure.  If it wasn't then the higher-tier tanks wouldn't be so superior.

The beauty of the design of WoT is that, if you play well and help your team win, your grind will be significantly shorter.  Grinding by YOLO-derping is a pretty inefficient way to level and does nothing to prepare you for the small margins for error at endgame.

[angry.bob]

But the endgame is frustrating, expensive crap. I just want the tanks.

The "endgame" can be had starting at Tier II, just with smaller numbers in the vehicle attributes. Just like almost all other MMOs.

[Sir T]

I have one tank at T10 and it took me a week of allnighters to grind it out from tier 9 and its one reason why my win rate will be in the toilet foreveamo as I literally ground through game after game while having the exact opposite of fun. I never fucking play the thing as if I do I lose a ton of cash, win or lose. And at the end it wasn't any more fun than the lower tier stuff in any case. I have the most fun in the KV2 at tier 6.

And I'm sorry but the game does not reward you for "teamwork." It rewards you for damage and to a lesser extent being the poor idiot spotting for the guys in the back hiding. If you are the guy holding a flank to stop the whole thing collapsing you get bugger all bar shot up. It also rewards you by broadcasting your stats to everyone so you can be called a tomato.

[WayAbvPar]

Why are you blaming the game for your embarrassment about your stats? You are the one in control of them. And the game does reward teamwork by granting you 50% more XP for a win. I am one of those who will hold a flank as long as I can as well. My win rate is higher than many people with better WN8s because of it. I see people in almost every game with a ~1400-1500 WN8 but barely 50% win rates. Almost invariably they are the shitstains that hide in the back until the game is lost, and then farm damage and kills on wounded tanks. I would rather win.

It isn't hard to have non-terrible stats. You have to actually try to improve, however. Just doing the same shit over and over again that got you your tomato status? Not going to do it. There is a wealth of information about this game on the Internet. There are many experienced players in this very thread, and a couple at least who are excellent players by any metric. Again- YOU are in charge. Choose to improve, and you will.

[Sir T]

And the average "winrate" is 47% 

Seriously dude when i play for a bit my most holy winrate is over 50% consistently, but I've done so many games it would take thousands of games to move my total winrate. I don't use gold rounds and I don't camp in bushes so my win8 or whatever is not that high. (Yes please tell me the ability to just ignore armour when you shoot at something is not relevant to your stats or winrate.) Good thing WG broadcasts the stats so the people that give them money are rewarded with green status. Hell just buying free XP with gold to skip over the "total shit" period of tank improvement is enough to add a few percents onto your win rate. One of the reasons I have the precious over 50% rate now is because I only use tanks I have already fully upgraded. Ching Ching!

Fact is that, while I don't do it, mathematically just running a bunch of tanks in the least amount of time is more financially and XP rewarding than playing a game to get shot up by clowns in bushes you cant see.

[WayAbvPar]

Please source your quotes from the official forums.

[angry.bob]

What is he quoting and why would it have to be from the official forums?

[WayAbvPar]

it is a joke because his post contains almost every fallacy/misunderstood mechanic/whine that all the idiot pubbies on the forums are continuously bleating.

[Sir T]

I presume he means where I put the average in quotes.

Anyway I did putt that number out of my ass, so here is the experts crunching it out. This is the NA server http://wotlabs.net/na

Average Win Rate:   48.9%
Average WN8:   791
Recent Win Rate:   50.38%
Recent WN8:   1091
Average Tier:   5.2

It's a bit better for the EU server. But look at the way the average recent win rate is higher for everyone! Its almost like everyone does better in fully upgraded tanks! Pity XVM will still say tomato regardless.

And I based the whole "gold ammo" stuff on the way how WG recently said that there are way too much armour pens on high tiers so the impression was that armour was useless. The reasonable assumption of course is that everyone is throwing around gold ammo at High tiers because fuck shooting for weakspots, we have to stay green to look good on XVM. Of course being WG they responded by lowering the pen values on normal ammo, so keep buying premium for that sweeet gold ammo, baby!

[Amarr HM]

And I'm sorry but the game does not reward you for "teamwork." It rewards you for damage and to a lesser extent being the poor idiot spotting for the guys in the back hiding. If you are the guy holding a flank to stop the whole thing collapsing you get bugger all bar shot up. It also rewards you by broadcasting your stats to everyone so you can be called a tomato.

The reward isn't better stats. If you hold the flank and do it well enough that you help your team win. You will get more XP and credits than you would if you joined in on the bumrush down the opposite flank and lost.

[Ginaz]

And I based the whole "gold ammo" stuff on the way how WG recently said that there are way too much armour pens on high tiers so the impression was that armour was useless. The reasonable assumption of course is that everyone is throwing around gold ammo at High tiers because fuck shooting for weakspots, we have to stay green to look good on XVM. Of course being WG they responded by lowering the pen values on normal ammo, so keep buying premium for that sweeet gold ammo, baby!

You will see a lot of gold rounds in tier 10 and even tier 9 games, but I don't see it very often in tier 8 and below.  I hardly ever use gold rounds, though I do carry them on all almost my tanks, and my WN8 is over 1700 with a 53% win rate.  If you know what you're doing overall and know where to aim, then you can pen most tanks.  In other words...skill.  You either have it or you don't.

[Nebu]

I sling a lot of premium rounds when I'm bottom tier and almost none when I'm top tier.  I think that's a pretty common approach.

[WayAbvPar]

And I based the whole "gold ammo" stuff on the way how WG recently said that there are way too much armour pens on high tiers so the impression was that armour was useless. The reasonable assumption of course is that everyone is throwing around gold ammo at High tiers because fuck shooting for weakspots, we have to stay green to look good on XVM. Of course being WG they responded by lowering the pen values on normal ammo, so keep buying premium for that sweeet gold ammo, baby!

You will see a lot of gold rounds in tier 10 and even tier 9 games, but I don't see it very often in tier 8 and below.  I hardly ever use gold rounds, though I do carry them on all almost my tanks, and my WN8 is over 1700 with a 53% win rate.  If you know what you're doing overall and know where to aim, then you can pen most tanks.  In other words...skill.  You either have it or you don't.

I carry a half and half load on most of my tanks (all gold in artillery for splash). The only tank I start the round firing gold in is the E100. I purposely try not to use gold A) to save credits, and B) (more importantly) to train myself where to shoot different tanks. Even notoriously shitty guns like the KV-220 or T-14- I only shoot gold when I run into something I can't pen any other way.

And if you are losing money when you win in tier 10s you are either firing a TON of gold ammo or you are completely crapping your pants every game. I wish they would double repair costs while also doubling rewards for doing damage. That would clear a lot of the 45% 300 WN8 shitlords that absolutely torpedo any chance of winning by their team by pricing them out. Anyone who can fog a mirror should be able to do at least 75% of their hit points as a top tier tank in most games.

[Amarr HM]

I've filled up a couple of my daily double tanks with Premium ammo.

[Sir T]

And if you are losing money when you win in tier 10s you are either firing a TON of gold ammo or you are completely crapping your pants every game.

BULL ZHIT!

Look you bloody idiot, if you dont like me then fine, but don't make it so you have to spout total bullshit just to make me look weak and stoooopid. YOu either are deliberatly lying or have a severe case of elite-tanker-itis where bieng a mere mortal is bdlow your internet high standards.

Fact is as you well know top tier is supposed to lose you money so you go down and play mid tiers to make credits. Its the same as every single one of WGs games, and somehow it does not apply to your majestic self.

But it's not just me

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/240022-losing-credits-all-the-time-in-tier-10/page__pid__4539549#entry4539549

The way things are set up in tier 9 and 10. You actually have to have 3k damage or 3+ kills and a win to
make any money.

And I'm sure you will cry that guy used an example where he lobbed nothing but gold, but on the NEXT page there is an example of someone doing just under 3000 damage, winning and surviving and walking away with a mighty 7000 silver in her pocket. Feel the riches, yo.

Fact is that most of the team wont do that much damage as they will be eliminated early or were pinned down the entire match so the majority of the team will lose money.

And there is loads of threads on the Wot forums saying this. I mean why the fuck you would make such a stupid easily refuted and asinine comment.

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/447993-making-money-with-tier-10s/

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/274185-losing-money-after-victory/

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/417312-high-tier-broken-economics/

http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/12431-higher-tier-tanks-losing-money/

Etc etc.

Prediction of Way comment to follow this

Ha ha ha he fell into my trap of refuting spending hours finding threads to refute me and now he looks even more stupid ha ha ha

Yes, I now recognize you made yourself look like an elitist twat by saying something everyone knows is complete bollox in order to make me fall into your trap of making me look stupid. Oh. Woe. Is. Me. 

And guys who fire gold, I'm not judging, its part of the game and thanks for making WG cash, but don't sit there pretending you would do quite as well without it.

[Merusk]

I sling a lot of premium rounds when I'm bottom tier and almost none when I'm top tier.  I think that's a pretty common approach.

My premium tanks were all gold rounds all the time. Since you can buy them with credits and premium tank + gold ammo = lots of damage quite often it was a winning proposition.

On some of the OP tanks like the Sherman before its howitzer got nerfed I did the same thing. Oh the rage from people.

[WayAbvPar]

All but one of those posts crying about not making money at tier 10s-  a year or more old. Did you bother to read the threads, or just the OP? There are tons of people in there saying the same thing I am. I didn't consider anyone playing on a standard account, because fuck you, that's why. If you want to leech and play a free game, then your path is going to be harder. Get a fucking paper route to pay for premium or quit bitching.

Tier 10s aren't for making wads of money. If you want to make money (without premium or premium tanks), find a tier 5 and/or tier 6 you can play well and go to town. But crying that the deck is stacked against you because A) you are too cheap to spend any money on the game, or B) too terrible to do enough damage to mitigate your costs, or C) both A) and B)? I couldn't care less. I am glad people like that struggle, because they are bad for the game. It is nothing against you personally.

I still run shoot mostly gold in my Sherman to hilarious effect. If I run into something I have trouble penning, I switch to regular HE. I think it is the only tank (if not, then one of just a few) that I have 2 Marks of Excellence on.

[Furiously]

You know what I love about world of tanks? That I can always be improving. I can die and watch a better player than myself and then copy what they did, making myself better.

For example I played four games this morning in my AMX 1390 and scouted the entire enemy team coming up the hill from a spot I watched an player on my team do once.

In my second game I was on Windstorm, in my Bulldog, and I spotted a couple tanks in the middle, from a spot Way has shown me, and died early.

On my 3rd game I played my 53/55 and had a horrid round on Winterberg, mostly because it's not a really arty friendly map.

For the fourth game, I stayed in the same arty for a mission, our team got destroyed on Fiery Salient. They had 7 tanks and we had 3 at the end. Aba has taught me one very important thing. Don't ever give up and throw your life away when it looks bleak.  A few minutes later it was 5 tanks on the enemy side vs. me and a leopard. We picked them apart systematically, it was glorious I ended up with more than 5K damage in my arty and he had like 4K. Granted I had a couple lucky shots and if we had been against a coordinated push we would have died, but they kept rushing to get us one by one or hiding in the back. I ended the morning with a 4000+ win8. I wish I was always that good of a player.

The take away... Winning pays a ton better than losing. The game can also be extremely frustrating with stacked teams.  Or just horrid players in the top tanks.

[WayAbvPar]

In my second game I was on Windstorm, in my Bulldog, and I spotted a couple tanks in the middle, from a spot Way has shown me, and died early.

This sounds about right 

[Amarr HM]

I can make money with some of my Tier 10s, I used to make a decent profit with the IS7 when I was a purple player. 15-20k a game on average I would say. Nowadays that would be like 5-10k.

[Ginaz]

And I based the whole "gold ammo" stuff on the way how WG recently said that there are way too much armour pens on high tiers so the impression was that armour was useless. The reasonable assumption of course is that everyone is throwing around gold ammo at High tiers because fuck shooting for weakspots, we have to stay green to look good on XVM. Of course being WG they responded by lowering the pen values on normal ammo, so keep buying premium for that sweeet gold ammo, baby!

You will see a lot of gold rounds in tier 10 and even tier 9 games, but I don't see it very often in tier 8 and below.  I hardly ever use gold rounds, though I do carry them on all almost my tanks, and my WN8 is over 1700 with a 53% win rate.  If you know what you're doing overall and know where to aim, then you can pen most tanks.  In other words...skill.  You either have it or you don't.

I carry a half and half load on most of my tanks (all gold in artillery for splash). The only tank I start the round firing gold in is the E100. I purposely try not to use gold A) to save credits, and B) (more importantly) to train myself where to shoot different tanks. Even notoriously shitty guns like the KV-220 or T-14- I only shoot gold when I run into something I can't pen any other way.

And if you are losing money when you win in tier 10s you are either firing a TON of gold ammo or you are completely crapping your pants every game. I wish they would double repair costs while also doubling rewards for doing damage. That would clear a lot of the 45% 300 WN8 shitlords that absolutely torpedo any chance of winning by their team by pricing them out. Anyone who can fog a mirror should be able to do at least 75% of their hit points as a top tier tank in most games.

I generally only carry primarily gold on my tier 10 tanks, and even then not with all of them.  My E-100 carries about 60/40 gold/HE.  The HE is for hull down tanks like an IS-7 or another E-100 that is a fair distance away.  Other than that, I mostly use the standard ammo, even with a premium account and a shit load of premium tanks.  My use of gold on tier 8s and below is situational.  If I'm in an IS-6 or one of the Chinese heavy premiums, I'll use it against other tier 8 heavies or tough meds like the super pershing but thats about it.  The most I'll carry on anything tier 8 and below is around 25-30% gold.  I very, very, very rarely use it in anything under tier 8 and never in tier 5 and under.  I've done pretty well so far doing it the way I do IMO.

[angry.bob]

The Japanese heavy line is like someone nutpunching you with hollow knitting needles, so that not only are they punching your nuts, they're also draining your body of vitality and the ability to reproduce. Yes, the line actually causes such a raging soft-on you'll be left unable to have children.

[Amarr HM]

I was watching a Twitch stream yesterday of a top EU player with the Type 4, I concur it looked pretty terrible.

[Sir T]

They all look like the TOG with R2D2s on the front. Whats this armour angling shit?

[WayAbvPar]

They are certainly enticing me to play my high tier arty to grind out the mini-boss missions. Big fat lumbering XP pinatas!

[Furiously]

They are certainly enticing me to play my high tier arty to grind out the mini-boss missions. Big fat lumbering XP pinatas!

I liked the sheriff in his last night. Thanks for softening him up for me!