World of Tanks

[Merusk]

Happy Xmas from Wargaming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTd0RSgN5Ec

Handy hint for anyone with a 38H - the T1E6 is completely unable to penetrate its armour so have fun!

I wondered why I had this strange tank in my garage. Now I know!

[Engels]

Different strokes. I have the M48, the E50M and the 62A, and can say without a moment's hesitation that the 48 gives me better results consistently in just about any situation. It can hull down more. It bounces more than the 62A, its more manouverable than the 50M. I like all three, but the M48 is just way way way more intuitive to me.

Also, I argue that the T-32 is the best tier 8 heavy in the game, with the possible exception of the IS3.

[Mortriden]

Also, I argue that the T-32 is the best tier 8 medium in the game, with the possible exception of the IS3.

I would say, for me, the IS-3 is the better tank.  The T-32 is a very, very close runner up. 

Pro-tip:  If you want to make yourself shitty at this game again, you know to give yourself a challenge, take six months off.  Works like a charm.  The physics change seems to have added it's own level of stupid to the player base.  Had a friendly E-75 back off a hill onto my M40/43 the other night, that went well.  I don't know when the reduced Tier spread went into effect, but it's awesome. 

[Ginaz]

Different strokes. I have the M48, the E50M and the 62A, and can say without a moment's hesitation that the 48 gives me better results consistently in just about any situation. It can hull down more. It bounces more than the 62A, its more manouverable than the 50M. I like all three, but the M48 is just way way way more intuitive to me.

Also, I argue that the T-32 is the best tier 8 medium in the game, with the possible exception of the IS3.

With the ability to buy gold rounds with credits, IMO the T-32 benefits more than any other tank. It hurts the credit earning but I have prem tanks for that.  I always carry 10 gold rounds in all my tier 8+ tanks.

[Merusk]

Yeah, I started doing the same. Hooray for credit rounds!

Also, so many people bitch at you when you fire them out of the Type59 I've considered switching to them as my primary rounds at times. "Gold round using wallet warrior!""Hey, that's CREDIT-Round using wallet warrior, corpse-boy."

[Strazos]

Is there a way to tell if people are employing gold rounds?

[Simond]

Is there a way to tell if people are employing gold rounds?

Yeah, your tank explodes. 

[Tmon]

One clue that someone is using gold rounds is that your tier VII heavy takes 400+ damage when fired at by a tier V Sherman or PZIV with a really short barreled gun.

[Nebu]

I wish they would change gold rounds back to gold only.  If someone is going to blow me up with a lower tier tank, I at least want WGN to benefit from it.

[Tmon]

I wish they would change gold rounds back to gold only.  If someone is going to blow me up with a lower tier tank, I at least want WGN to benefit from it.

They do, people have an incentive to run premium, buy a premium money grinder or both.  I usually fire nothing but gold out of my Sherman and Jumbo because it's a nice fun change from working on the serious business tanks.  My other tanks usually have 10 or so gold on for emergencies. 

[kildorn]

The main issue with gold rounds for credits is that it widely exposes the problem with gold rounds in general. Their power is widely different based on the gun and what gold round it loads. Gold derp guns are some serious bullshit (derp damage with AP pen) at lower tiers, and at higher tiers you get into things like T69s with 300ish pen.

Gold rounds were always too expensive and too good for pub matches, and with them being widespread it's just being made very obvious.

[Strazos]

I typically keep 2 gold rounds on my tanks, just so things don't get excessive.

[WayAbvPar]

Just had a monster game in my BatChat-

Victory!
Battle: Arctic Region Monday, December 31, 2012 12:25:15 PM
Vehicle: Bat Chatillon 25 t
Experience received: 3,656 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 99,513
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Master Gunner, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"

96 defense points too...reset the cap with 2 seconds to spare. And STILL lost $38k. Gold rounds is spendy  

e- uploaded the replay.
http://mwreplays.com/replay/NXH5JAO4FCWY/

[Engels]

Heh, watched the whole thing. Very nice.

[Gets]

A classic match of internet tanks, where the player drags his team while they kick and scream towards a victory. Features distinguishing examples such as dead teammate ordering people around calling them dumb (in all-chat), an enemy player blaming their loss on "arty gaying the game up again" and calling out the last remaining teammate a bot. 10/10 would watch again.

[Merusk]

The long weekend has allowed me to finally buy the Tier 10 gun for my 103 AND I racked-up enough Xp for the 25/2 and my Patton.   No way I'm going to be able to get to tier 10 though, I need 180k xp. No free shirt for me!

ed: Watched the replay.  Way you were sooo lucky with a few of those shots not blowing you to hell.   The amount of times you guys were almost capped and got reset even had ME losing my mind and I knew the outcome!.   Well done.

[Abagadro]

I think Wargaming just crashed.  Game server down, forum down.

[Merusk]

1) Encounter battles have been out a while now.  Rarely do they make me rage anymore but tonight.. not the case.  Tier 9 encounter on the city map with the church on the hill.  I (m103)  a tier 8 TD and a medium are the only 3 tanks to go hill.  Every. Single. Other. Tank. Rushes the cap and sits on it.  I mean it, there were 12 tanks in the circle.  I manage to take out a T21 who peeks around the corner and do some damage to a 103 bth their E75s, a JgPz and an ISU-152 before they finally figure it out and swarm me.   My team has cap to only 60% by now, because why.. because only 3 tanks count, right. 

I call it a loss and they call me a noob. So I ask in multi-team chat just how much a tier 9 costs on E-bay because for an entire tier 9 team to go to cap on encounter is beyond stupid.  As i quit out of the game the first reset happens.  When I'm out of my next game, sure enough it was a loss.  Surprise!

2) A big thanks to WG.net for putting "I will not get in to a head-to-head brawl with American heavies" as one of their resolutions poll results.   It made me realize how wrong I was playing them in 1 on 1 encounters and tonight it let me take a KV-5 down from 60% to dead in my 25% T32 with no additional damage from the KV.   Buahahah.

[Abagadro]

The real problem is the timer is significantly slower in Encounter battles and most dopes haven't figured that out.

[Tmon]

The real problem is the timer is significantly slower in Encounter battles and most dopes haven't figured that out.

Also cap speed hits maximum with three tanks (for any match type) in the circle, any additional ones just spread the points around between more tanks.  I turned off assaults and encounters for the Holidays and it helped out both my blood pressure and my win rate.  I'll probably turn them back on Monday when (hopefully) the kiddies return to school.

[Merusk]

The real problem is the timer is significantly slower in Encounter battles and most dopes haven't figured that out.

Yep, which I expect folks to have figured out by now.  Particularly if they've been playing long enough to own a Tier 9 tank.  Guess not!

The real problem is the timer is significantly slower in Encounter battles and most dopes haven't figured that out.

Also cap speed hits maximum with three tanks (for any match type) in the circle, any additional ones just spread the points around between more tanks.  I turned off assaults and encounters for the Holidays and it helped out both my blood pressure and my win rate.  I'll probably turn them back on Monday when (hopefully) the kiddies return to school.

I turned off Assault mode as soon as the option was available and haven't turned it on since.  Have they gotten any better or do you still wind-up with half of your heavies camping on the assault side?   I wish you could option per-tank because I liked playing them on TDs or Arty, just not as actual tanks.

Your theory about kids might explain why so many teams have gone all one side then sat there, even when you point out the other team is either all on the same side or on the opposite side so they should push, though.  I mean, I expect it to happen, just not with the frequency it has in the last week.

[Tmon]

They trimmed out some of the worst assault maps and people have more or less learned some basic strategy so they aren't as bad as they were when they first came out.  Also they seem to have cranked back the frequency that those modes pop.  I might leave assault mode off and just do encounters, I find them the most fun.

[WayAbvPar]

I finally turned off encounter and assault a couple of days ago. I had 2 encounters and an assault in a row, and in each game I had to start out by begging my teammates not to fuck things up ( I am more specific, but it depends on the map). In every case, I was roundly ignored and we lost the game. Fuck it. I am done trying to educate, and done having my win rate dragged in the mud by cretins who not only don't know the first thing about strategy, but are actually hostile to anyone who dare try to win a match by asking for some very basic stuff.

TL DR fuck pubbies.

[Nebu]

Two questions:

1) Just opened up the Panther II and the Tiger II.  Which is the better tank for someone that plays casually?

2) Reading the forums, they claim that win % is the best metric for skill.  I can't understand how they figure that one person can overcome the stupidity of 14 others.  I've played some of my best matches in losses and some of my worst in wins.  It seems like there are just too many variables in public matches.  Any thoughts from the veterans?

[Merusk]

Depends on how you play.  If you like to Brawl, Tiger II.    If you like the play of Mediums in general the Panther II.

I'd go for Tiger II, myself. The thing is a beast and so long as you know to keep your hull and turret sides protected you bounce things left and right.  (much like the Super Pershing)  Expose those, though and you're going to feel much pain.   My favorite tactic for dealing with Tiger IIs is to let someone else distract them as I hide nearby in my medium.  When their gun turns to take-on that threat I pummel them into the ground.

I disagree with win% for the same reason.  I don't platoon, though, and the folks who advocate it seem to platoon quite often.  I can turn the tide if I'm playing well and I'm up against equal players (or their superior players have been beat-down)  but as you say, you've got 13 other factors playing against you.  I don't look-down on anyone with a 49% win rate the way I've been beat-down for it.   If you're at 43% or lower and in a Tier 8 or 9 tank, though, you might just be the problem.

My other problem with win% as a true guide is it is 1) easy to fake and 2) Impossible to recover from if you bounce-around lower tiers a lot on your account.   I have 4300 battles now and a 49% rate. I did a spreadsheet to see what it would take to get up to 51% and I'd have to have a string of 200 victories in a row.   Or, to be an accurate reflection of my win %, I'd have to play over 100k more games at a 51% win rate.   Yeah, no.

[WayAbvPar]

After a few thousand battles, everyone gets basically the same amount of terrible and awesome teammates. The only variable is you.

It can be gamed a bit by ALWAYS platooning (so you only have a possibility of 12 terrible teammates instead of 14), and by playing a ton of Clan Wars- there are some very bad clans that are trying to take land, and even an average team can waltz past 3 or 4 of them a night. Even if you get beat by the land owners, that still sends your WR north.

As for Panther II vs Tiger II- it depends on your play style. I have never driven the P2, but it is basically a standoff sniper-type tank as I understand it. The T2 is far more robust, although it has an accurate enough gun to do well as a sniper too. If you like to mix it up, go with the heavy. If you like to maneuver and take potshots, go med.

[Merusk]

After a few thousand battles, everyone gets basically the same amount of terrible and awesome teammates. The only variable is you.

Unless your first 1000 or so games are in Tier 1-4 vehicles. Like Nebu and I.  I'm not terrible in Tier 2 tanks, but I'm also not going to be able to take down an entire team myself.  My WR on lower tanks is far, far lower than my WR on Those Tier 7 and above.  It skews things and it's harder to drag yourself out of a pit when each win is only a ten thousandth of a percentage adjustment.

As I said above, it would take 100k battles to change my win rate to 51%  If I play my next 200 games and manage a 90% win rate, I'll still only be at 50%. Is that a fair assessment of my current abilities? No. Would I catch shit for it if we go by win rate as the only factor? Yes.

Really, do the math.  It's the same way one"F" your freshman year dooms a student a "B" average at best, even if they make "A"s in every other subject the rest of their school career.   

[Nebu]

I have 4000 battles or so.  My first 3000 were entirely in tiers 1-6.  The last 1000 have been primarily in tier 6-8.  My rating for the last 1000 is significantly better than the first 3000, but I'm going to have to play an absurd number of battles to overcome the hole that I dug in the lower tiers.  It seems to me that win rate can be easily gamed in clan wars, playing elite tanks with good crew, and running in 3 man platoons with voice com.   I've been platooning with a friend nightly and see an improvement in my play.

As for the Panther II vs Tiger II, I'm torn.  Been playing my T32 a bit and find that the gun can be frustrating against higher tier tanks.  Makes me hope that the tiger II is a bit more useful against tiers 9 and 10.  

Also: is it me or are there some terrible tier 9 players with good stats?  

[WayAbvPar]

After a few thousand battles, everyone gets basically the same amount of terrible and awesome teammates. The only variable is you.

Unless your first 1000 or so games are in Tier 1-4 vehicles. Like Nebu and I.  I'm not terrible in Tier 2 tanks, but I'm also not going to be able to take down an entire team myself.  My WR on lower tanks is far, far lower than my WR on Those Tier 7 and above.  It skews things and it's harder to drag yourself out of a pit when each win is only a ten thousandth of a percentage adjustment.

As I said above, it would take 100k battles to change my win rate to 51%  If I play my next 200 games and manage a 90% win rate, I'll still only be at 50%. Is that a fair assessment of my current abilities? No. Would I catch shit for it if we go by win rate as the only factor? Yes.

Really, do the math.  It's the same way one"F" your freshman year dooms a student a "B" average at best, even if they make "A"s in every other subject the rest of their school career.   

I will concede that your ability to shape a game is far reduced at lower tiers. However, the distribution of terrible teams and awesome teams should be the same. Average win rate is 48% (2% draws), so your multitude of low tier battles should end up near that, yes? You make it sound like you never won a game before tier 6, which would indeed make it tough to bring your WR up

I have raised my WR almost a full point in the last month, so it is definitely doable. You just can't take any rounds off (and I still do that when I am tired or distracted)- you have to concentrate and do everything you can to help your team win. That doesn't always mean having huge damage or kill games. Often times it is patiently holding a flank alone while the other side rolls*. When you see you are outmanned, you don't just take someone with you and go on to the next tank; instead you stay safe and distract as many bad guys as possible for as long as possible. Other games it is staying alive in a forward position and spotting for your teammates. And other games it is indeed just kicking the shit out of everything that has the temerity to cross your path, and then looking for more 


*Ask Engels or Abagadro about my near-mystical ability to choose the 'wrong' flank to play on. It is like my tank has BO or something...I get abandoned A LOT.

[WayAbvPar]

As for the Panther II vs Tiger II, I'm torn.  Been playing my T32 a bit and find that the gun can be frustrating against higher tier tanks.  Makes me hope that the tiger II is a bit more useful against tiers 9 and 10.  

Also: is it me or are there some terrible tier 9 players with good stats?  

T2 has better pen but less damage than the T32 if memory serves. So you will do less damage per shot, but do it more consistently. Gun fires a bit quicker too.

And yes- there are people who can't seem to find the shooty end of their tank with decent stats. I am sure some of those are shared accounts, while others might be good players having a bad day or playing a tank that doesn't fit their favorite playstyle.

[Nebu]

Perhaps I win the lottery when it comes to stupid players.  Having one side with an 8:3 advantage lose while I'm holding off 4 on the flank by myself seems to be too common.  Had several matches last night where my friend and I defended both a flank and cap while 8 players on the other side of the map were systematically dismantled.  Then we died to the impending swarm. 

What I need to do is stop myself from aggressive play.  Sometimes it's just too fun to rush in and kill 3 before dying. 

[Tmon]

Playing WoT correctly can be excruciatingly boring sometimes, my overall win rate would be better if I didn't do stupid things due to impatience.  It's one of the reasons I love the t50-2, it's one of the few tanks that rewards driving around the map like a spider monkey on crack.  When I got my T71 I tried to play it the same way and quickly learned it is not that kind of tank, still a ton of fun to play but not at all like a T50-2.

[Merusk]

I will concede that your ability to shape a game is far reduced at lower tiers. However, the distribution of terrible teams and awesome teams should be the same. Average win rate is 48% (2% draws), so your multitude of low tier battles should end up near that, yes? You make it sound like you never won a game before tier 6, which would indeed make it tough to bring your WR up

Nope, i won games and my WR is where WG.net says it should be as a pure-pubbie, 49%.  That still gets you shit-on by assholes running XVM with a gamed win % who are doing stupid shit like ignoring the other flank and following the crowd or shooting rounds in to the turret of a US heavy.  Both things I've pointed out to people and gotten the response .  "Fuck off with your 49% win rate, pubbie."

As I said, math is simple here.  49% win/loss rate at 4300 games means 2107 wins and losses and 86 draws.

Tack on 200 to just wins and # of games (which means 100% win rate for both games)
2307/ 4500 = 51.2% win rate.  Not a reflection of awesomeness over the last 200 games.

Play another 1000 games at 80% win-rate = 800 wins.
2907/ 5300 = 54.8% win rate. Doing ok but still an impossible statistic to hit for that raise

A "good" player can have a 54% win rate.
Play 1,000 more games at that rate = 540 wins.
2847/500 = 51.7% 
2,000 = 1080 wins
3,387/ 6500 = 53.7%  - finally close to your current ability, but 2k games is a long, long time.

It's a very long, very slow climb out of a pit set in the early game unless you manipulate your account by starting over in a clan. 

[Ginaz]

I will concede that your ability to shape a game is far reduced at lower tiers. However, the distribution of terrible teams and awesome teams should be the same. Average win rate is 48% (2% draws), so your multitude of low tier battles should end up near that, yes? You make it sound like you never won a game before tier 6, which would indeed make it tough to bring your WR up

Nope, i won games and my WR is where WG.net says it should be as a pure-pubbie, 49%.  That still gets you shit-on by assholes running XVM with a gamed win % who are doing stupid shit like ignoring the other flank and following the crowd or shooting rounds in to the turret of a US heavy.  Both things I've pointed out to people and gotten the response .  "Fuck off with your 49% win rate, pubbie."

As I said, math is simple here.  49% win/loss rate at 4300 games means 2107 wins and losses and 86 draws.

Tack on 200 to just wins and # of games (which means 100% win rate for both games)
2307/ 4500 = 51.2% win rate.  Not a reflection of awesomeness over the last 200 games.

Play another 1000 games at 80% win-rate = 800 wins.
2907/ 5300 = 54.8% win rate. Doing ok but still an impossible statistic to hit for that raise

A "good" player can have a 54% win rate.
Play 1,000 more games at that rate = 540 wins.
2847/500 = 51.7% 
2,000 = 1080 wins
3,387/ 6500 = 53.7%  - finally close to your current ability, but 2k games is a long, long time.

It's a very long, very slow climb out of a pit set in the early game unless you manipulate your account by starting over in a clan. 

There's ways to "game" your win % that aren't available to people like us who play only pub games.  If, as a pure solo pub player, you have a win % around 50%, then you are fine.  Mine has been sitting at 53% forever and of the almost 10,000 games I've played, all but 3 or 4 were solo pub.  I consider myself a pretty good player but I know theres no way in hell I'll ever get my win % over 55%, let alone 60% or 70%.  Again, if you're around 50% its all good.  However, if you're in the low 40's or even lower after a few thousand games, then theres a problem.

[angry.bob]

Just opened up the Panther II and the Tiger II.  Which is the better tank for someone that plays casually?

I'd go for the Tiger II unless you had a burning desire for the medium line. The Tiger II is a pretty significant improvement over the Tiger, while the Panther II is a marginal improvement over the Panther.

The win rate as a metric is pretty much bullshit. People will argue over it until they're blue in the face and at this point it's pointless. True believers will trot out ponderous and flawed "statistical analysis" and just bury any counter-arguement or correction to their model with idiot gamer forum bullshit. Half the people who do use it know it's bullshit anyway, and the people who use it as a basis to bitch in chat are usually shitty players anyway. I'm at 49% and expect to stay there forever and I honestly don't give a shit. I usually end a match with 3 or more kills so as far as I'm concerned I did my part. Just play and have fun man, that's ultimately the point anyway. That and have one of every tank in your garage so you can look at pretty, pretty tanks.