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Topic: Red Dead Redemption 2 (Read 31872 times)
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Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
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From what I'm seeing in reviews and publicity, the character moving like a sack of potatoes and unfun looting and so on is part of The Vision [tm]: e.g., that this is an open world that rules you, not that you are the future ruler of the world.
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Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10603
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Honestly, it sounds like every Rockstar game ever. They succeed in spite of terrible movement mechanics. GTA 5 was the first time they even got the driving physics tuned right, it was always dogshit before.
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"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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It is so stupid, borderline demented. What would be a fantastic incredible game ends up being something I probably never finish because it is physically painful to do the most basic function of the entire game: moving around.
There is a huge difference between allowing characters to move unrealistically fast and twitchy and tranforming a main character into a goofy malfunctioning man-shaped tank. And where is the realism when every minor object stops you in your tracks or forces you to slowly and gently open and close it according to the animation rails? We grill that Chris Robert crook for bullshit like this. Rockstar does not get a free pass from me, especially cause movement and interactions here feel overall worse than Gta 4 (four!) to me.
Edit: someone said it better than me:
"however, it still maintains Rockstar’s bullish commitment to a clunky control scheme. Across what’s now four games and two console generations, the company’s characters have lumbered along in what’s meant to convey the weight of a real person in contrast to the light, effortless controls of so many other games. But the result is artificial rather than convincing. Studios like Naughty Dog have proven capable of giving characters a consequential sense of weight without making it a challenge to navigate around a table or requiring you to hold down buttons to move at acceptable speeds. Coupled with middling gunplay feedback and a few too many stealth segments, the chunky act of playing Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn’t feel good so much as it feels, eventually at least, tolerable."
Naughty Dog or, you know, Horizon Zero Dawn.
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 06:29:56 AM by Falconeer »
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schild
Administrator
Posts: 60345
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Every Rockstar game has shit movement and I haven't played a single one past a 4 hour or so session because of it.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42631
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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GTA 5 was the first time they even got the driving physics tuned right, it was always dogshit before.
I disagree. GTA5 is better than it was before, but the driving is still dogshit.
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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This is kinda funny because the movement isn't what bothers me so much. I do think it's rather realistic, which I can dig, but the things that really bother me:
is when I lose all my pelts due to ambush and I forgot to save. Realism? is when I unintentionally murder someone and the autosave captures it. Realism? is when I gun down/beat up/loot someone and somehow I get a witness that is trying to report me. Sometimes there isn't even a visible person. is when I'm recognized even though I'm wearing a bandana. Realism? I should change all my clothes?
Really, The Mosey isn't the main trouble.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11843
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GTA 5 was the first time they even got the driving physics tuned right, it was always dogshit before.
I disagree. GTA5 is better than it was before, but the driving is still dogshit. I haven't played a GTA for a while, but I always thought the driving felt exactly like an 8 year old playing with toy cars. Which I assume was the goal.
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 15024
I am the harbinger of your doom!
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This is kinda funny because the movement isn't what bothers me so much. I do think it's rather realistic, which I can dig, but the things that really bother me:
is when I lose all my pelts due to ambush and I forgot to save. Realism? is when I unintentionally murder someone and the autosave captures it. Realism? is when I gun down/beat up/loot someone and somehow I get a witness that is trying to report me. Sometimes there isn't even a visible person. is when I'm recognized even though I'm wearing a bandana. Realism? I should change all my clothes?
Really, The Mosey isn't the main trouble.
I was trying to get on my horse and managed to accidentally pick a fight with a civil war veteran. This was right after I paid off a previous bounty. At least the trip was short. Unintentional awesome: chasing someone on horseback and not clearing enough space under a shack ended up with a cartoon style de-horsing. So far, I'm enjoying it, despite the UI/map icons being a bit small for me, and issues with the controls. Too many potential violent actions share buttons with non-violent actions. See above. Still, it's just RDR with added stuff. The added stuff is fine with me so far. edit: I think I've had issues with every single Rockstar UI. At least the colorblind option is better than normal. I just have to remember that hot pink is the new red.
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« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 04:54:39 PM by Rasix »
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-Rasix
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Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
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I can see someone who enjoys the ultra-realism saying, "Yeah, being misidentified and accidentally picking fights and all that is realistic, man, so it's part of the The Experience."
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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The reuse of buttons and button mapping in general gave me some initial issues in my test run. As far as movement, coming from Horizon ZD and Spidey 2018, it's going to feel even more brutal. And yeah, I was concerned about the tiny UI, as well. Again, HZD had a nice solution: auto-hide the UI, touch the touchpad to see it for a few seconds. Lets me play with a view of the nice scenery, very immersive, but the info pops up on screen as I need it; stays out of the way when I don't. Close to perfect.
I think I really don't like the setting of RDR. Couldn't finish the first one (halfway, maybe?), and I'm not on fire to start the new one. I love westerns on the screen, so I'm not sure why I find it so boring in a game. After Elex and HZD, I think post-apoc primitive sci-fantasy might be my favorite setting.
Anyway, going back to features. I think my main concern for RDR2 is the clunky gameplay in general, after playing two games that are just fun to play. I don't mind grinding out a few bandit camps or challenges in HZD or clearing out bad guys in Spidey, because both feature fun action/stealth gameplay. I've always felt Rockstar's games were more 'endure the clunky gameplay because the overall game is fun and over the top'. I'm not sure that holds water any more.
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Mandella
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1236
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HZD makes playing *anything* else a chore. They really nailed it with that title.
That said, I didn't care for the DLC much. Did you have any issues with it, or am I alone?
As far as RDR2, my staff at work are pretty much in the pro-Rockstar camp, with one holdout over the clunky movement thing. As for me, I don't generally mind the control scheme at all but I have to agree with Sky that apparently video game westerns just aren't my thing.
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01101010
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12003
You call it an accident. I call it justice.
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Westerns on screen are great because they cut out all the shitty boring crap in the middle, or at least only give you a brief look. Western games smack you in the face with it. Really curious how online part is going to fare.
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Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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MisterNoisy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1892
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The reuse of buttons and button mapping in general gave me some initial issues in my test run. As far as movement, coming from Horizon ZD and Spidey 2018, it's going to feel even more brutal. And yeah, I was concerned about the tiny UI, as well. Again, HZD had a nice solution: auto-hide the UI, touch the touchpad to see it for a few seconds. Lets me play with a view of the nice scenery, very immersive, but the info pops up on screen as I need it; stays out of the way when I don't. Close to perfect.
I think I really don't like the setting of RDR. Couldn't finish the first one (halfway, maybe?), and I'm not on fire to start the new one. I love westerns on the screen, so I'm not sure why I find it so boring in a game. After Elex and HZD, I think post-apoc primitive sci-fantasy might be my favorite setting.
Anyway, going back to features. I think my main concern for RDR2 is the clunky gameplay in general, after playing two games that are just fun to play. I don't mind grinding out a few bandit camps or challenges in HZD or clearing out bad guys in Spidey, because both feature fun action/stealth gameplay. I've always felt Rockstar's games were more 'endure the clunky gameplay because the overall game is fun and over the top'. I'm not sure that holds water any more.
RDR2 is definitely pushing the limits of what we can do with a modern four-face-button gamepad. Even compared to GTA5, the amount of holding buttons and clicking others while selecting with others iis bonkers. Bring on the six face-button gamepads!.
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XBL GT: Mister Noisy PSN: MisterNoisy Steam UID: MisterNoisy
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Big Gulp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3275
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Control issues aside, I did happen to run into a Klan cross burning at random in the middle of the woods. I got to stack their bodies like cordwood, which all by itself was worth the $59.99 admission price.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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Finally started digging into this over the weekend. I only have two gripes thus far, one minor and one major. Minor: I wish washing up was more convenient (as in: could be done in camp). Sure, I could just cheese it by swapping outfits, but I like the slow paced style of the game and that's a jarring gamey decision.
The major one (for me) is the day/night cycle. It's waaay too fast. It worked fine for GTA, but in RDR with its slower pace and very relaxed style of gameplay, it's a constant irritant. I want to take my time tracking some deer through the woods and looking around at stuff and not feel rushed because the day cycle is so short.
I suppose that's a pretty decent initial impression of the game, that I like the style they went for so much that I think they didn't push it enough.
My two favorite tips thus far: dbl-tap L1 to spin your pistols as you put them away, and you can auto-walk in cinematic camera if you set a waypoint. I've never used a Rockstar cinematic camera much, but it's great in this one.
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Mandella
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1236
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Does the game allow modding? Probably a dumb question, but I've never messed with modding on the PS4, so I have no idea.
But day/night cycles are one of the first things I mess with in a game, for exactly the reasons you state. I kinda like to mosey even if I'm not in a western game.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 09:57:42 AM by Sky »
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Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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Chapter 5 feels like it was destined to be a much bigger part of the game which got cut for time but which was never fully removed because of the money and effort that had already been spent on it. The game loses prety much all of the momentum there and it feels like a total drag.
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Hawkbit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5531
Like a Klansman in the ghetto.
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I’m still in chapter one and it’s a slog. Good to know it doesn’t get better. I feel like I’ve played this for 20 hours and I’m still trying to find the fun.
The day/night cycle sucks like Sky said. It’s also damn hard to find where sounds are located in game. I can hear someone yelling but it’s too far off, so by the time I have found the event It is usually over.
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Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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It's the goddamn gameplay. This would have worked better for me if they went full Telltale with better graphics. Instead, every time I have to go anywhere/do anything I feel compelled by the desire and hope to see something new or get a new part of the story but at the same time I feel terribly aggravated by the idea of what I have to do to get there. Everything feels so heavy, fatiguing.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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It’s also damn hard to find where sounds are located in game. I can hear someone yelling but it’s too far off, so by the time I have found the event It is usually over.
I've had that happen a lot. I realized it's because I'm playing with no radar (just popping it up to check my bearings as needed). I was playing a section with the large radar up to see where I was going and noticed they emit a sonar-like blip when they call out. It disappears quickly, but it's at least something. And as you say, if it's outside the radar, good luck ever seeing them. So far the controls haven't been bugging me since I shifted gears into RDR mode. Only thing I've tweaked was turning off dead zone (I've always hated that about console controls anyway).
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Mandella
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1236
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It's the goddamn gameplay. This would have worked better for me if they went full Telltale with better graphics. Instead, every time I have to go anywhere/do anything I feel compelled by the desire and hope to see something new or get a new part of the story but at the same time I feel terribly aggravated by the idea of what I have to do to get there. Everything feels so heavy, fatiguing.
An acquaintance of mine was playing the original RDR when her mom walked in. Mom: "What are you doing?" Her: "Riding my horse to Mexico." Time passes. Mom: "How long is this going to take?" Her: "About as long as it would take to ride my horse to Mexico." And then she put down the controller and never logged back in again. Honestly, that kinda makes me want to play it...
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Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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Hey, I adore trucking simulators. Also walking simulators. The beauty if Euro Truck Simulator is getting on the highway in Roma and happily and meditatively drive all the way up to Stockholm without too much hassle. The road "flows" under you. It takes about 2 real life hours and can be very addicting. But RDR2 just has too many things to keep track of that don't feel rewarding to me. Moving around is a chore. Inventory is a chore. Hunger, thirst, energy, even looting, is a chore. Feeding yourself, cleaning your gun, shaving, and fucking shooting, it's all chore-y. I think I would have less of a problem if it were "Cowboy Manager 2019", meaning text based and all. Story, visuals and and audio are incredible here, but the actual "game" is so swampy. I want to love it every time I boot it up, but end up somehow tired after 30 minutes.
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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Then you realize you left your rifle on your horse.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Hawkbit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5531
Like a Klansman in the ghetto.
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That's what caused me to kill the game without saving last night. I decided to take on a bandit camp but failed to get my rifle off my horse first. Instead of trucking back to the horse I just said fuck it and went to bed. I wish they would come up with a fun-mode patch that turns all that extraneous bullshit off.
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01101010
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12003
You call it an accident. I call it justice.
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But realism, man...
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Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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Counterpoint: you can whistle for your horse.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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I actually like that aspect. I'm a fan of verisimilitude, though. I like the emergent gameplay (oh shit, I forgot to grab that rifle, do I risk calling Bessie over or take these guys on with my pistol and lasso), that's one of the things that makes Rockstar games interesting.
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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I haven't been murdered by a cougar yet, so there's that. The real limiter is that the game physically puts us to sleep. I can fight it well enough but my wife can't.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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I dunno, the game itself hasn't clicked for me. I've been enjoying the hunting and just hanging out in the world, but as soon as anything goes sideways it feels way too punitive. I'm flat broke with bounties in two states...and I'm mostly minding my own business. It feels like the game doesn't want me to have fun or play it the way it 'should' be played (as a rough outlaw). I realize my last post was about liking that aspect, but that was before I was dead broke and trying to avoid getting any more bounties and running away from anyone that could remotely trigger a crime. Lots of traffic on those dusty roads, and all of em snitches with high powered optics.
I think I really must hate the setting, given my experiences with the first one stalled out quickly, but I've played the shit out of every GTA since 3 and bought several multiple times.
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« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 06:42:25 AM by Sky »
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01101010
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12003
You call it an accident. I call it justice.
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I'm waiting for a sale on this AND the release of online before considering putting this on my PS4.
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Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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I can only imagine the new depths of boredom I'll explore in RDR2 MP.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Big Gulp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3275
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I'm flat broke with bounties in two states...and I'm mostly minding my own business. It feels like the game doesn't want me to have fun or play it the way it 'should' be played (as a rough outlaw).
Masks help. A LOT.
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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Why are you broke? Commit more crimes!
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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The crimes just seem clunky and not fun, with a protracted 'dealing with aftermath' phase that's even less fun. Even the hunting gets to be a bit of a drag once you get to the 'look for high quality specimens, then open the compendium in the clunky UI to see what kind of weapon and ammo I can use to not fuck up the pelt (sure, you can inspect from the main game...but that's also awkward for anything but stationary bigger game)' thing. I've yet to put together enough pelts for a single satchel upgrade and hunting is like 90% of what I've been doing.
The wandering around doing nothing is by far the game's strong point.
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