Return of the Book Thread

[Mosesandstick]

Dammit. I really need to write down all these recommendations somewhere.

[murdoc]

Halfway through Dust of Dreams and am finding it a much better read than Toll the Hounds. The first time I had read the Malazan books I stalled out in Toll the Hounds but I trudged through it on my reread and am glad I did as so far Dust of Dreams is far superior. I think my least favourite books of the series are the ones were the Malazans aren't the focus. As long as there is a heavy dose of the marines - whether I like them all or not - I find the book much more interesting. I think it's because the Marines don't typically sit around for pages being all emo and waxing poetic on darkness and light and whatever else all the depressing characters tend to go on and on and on and ON about.

Dust basically has all the characters I like, except for Karsa.

[Johny Cee]

I think this is a good general quote on what Bakker is writing, stolen from another message board:

People focus a lot on Bakker's philosophy, but he also has massive battles and engagements that rival and sometimes outstrip anything in Erikson (probably the closest stylistic comparison, though Bakker is a far better writer). He's definitely not dull. In addition, Bakker doe the philosophical stuff in a far more interesting and concise way than Erikson as well. He hasn't got quite so much crazy going on and what he does is 'earned' more by build-up and foreshadowing. I like Erikson but Bakker has definitely (IMO) firmly outstripped and deplaced him in what they're trying to do with the fantasy genre.

[Samwise]

Finished Game of Thrones recently.  While I'm hunting for a TPB copy of the second one (I want something I can prop open), I'm starting on the Black Company books.     I'm about 50 pages in and utterly lost, but I like the writing style.

[ghost]

Scott Bakker's latest, The White-Luck Warrior, is out now.

It's The Silmarillion meets Dune, written by a guy with a PhD in philosophy.  Been savoring this book by only reading 30 or 40 pages at a time.

Gimme a general thumbs up or thumbs down when you get finished.  I loved the first trilogy he did, but haven't read any of the aspect emperor.

[Sky]

Interesting. Just suggested Bakker for addition to the fiction collection here.

[Johny Cee]

Scott Bakker's latest, The White-Luck Warrior, is out now.

It's The Silmarillion meets Dune, written by a guy with a PhD in philosophy.  Been savoring this book by only reading 30 or 40 pages at a time.

Gimme a general thumbs up or thumbs down when you get finished.  I loved the first trilogy he did, but haven't read any of the aspect emperor.

I liked the first trilogy.  I loved the first book, but only liked the next two.  

The Judging Eye was all around pretty good, with one section (which is a touch of a homage to the Moria section of LOTR, but as a horror narrative) being fucking amazing.  I have reread that section a number of times.

So far, I'm really digging White-Luck Warrior.  I've been perfectly happy reading a couple chapters at a time, and then sitting back and letting everything that happened percolate around.  Good mix of "oh shit!" moments and small revelations about what is really going on (tidbits on the Outside, God/the Gods, the Nonmen, etc.)

Like the first trilogy, there are a couple POVs that are kind of a bit annoying.  They work, and they're supposed to be a bit annoying...  but it would be hard to push through on a reread.  

Each book of the second trilogy comes with a short prologue titled "What Came Before" which is a basically an in-character (so may be unreliable) synopsis of what has happened...  sometimes even outright spelling out a plot point or two that was a bit vague.  Again, in-character, so some of that might be a lie or propaganda.  It really works well to get you ready to jump right into the story.

Edit:

Part of my problem with the last two books of the first trilogy is that almost the entire story sweep of the Crusade against the Fanim is drawn directly from the actual First Crusade.  I've read a fair amount on the First Crusade, so most of that was fairly uninteresting for me.

[Ironwood]

Finished Game of Thrones recently.  While I'm hunting for a TPB copy of the second one (I want something I can prop open), I'm starting on the Black Company books.     I'm about 50 pages in and utterly lost, but I like the writing style.

Bought Chronicles of the Black Company after Sam showed me a compilation was out.  15 quid for the first 3, so I'm reading it just now.

I know, I know.  Fuck off.

[Khaldun]

I decided to give The Judging Eye a shot after being frustrated by the end of the last book of the first trilogy. I thought the first book in the series was just fantastic in terms of mood-setting and world-creation. The problem I had is that by the third book, Bakker's pretentions have caught up with him and they really start to weigh the whole series down--there's a lot of bloat and repetition and "I know literary theory and philosophy, see" creeping in.

[Chimpy]

Bought Chronicles of the Black Company after Sam showed me a compilation was out.  15 quid for the first 3, so I'm reading it just now.

The end of the world is nigh! 

[Sky]

Chimpo beat me to it!

Just finished the Lady-Protector. Eh, it was ok. Funny how fast it went after reading Erikson and study guides for so long.

Not sure what to get into next, probably just stick to study guides for now. I grabbed Imager, but I'm not sure I'm up for more Modesitt. Also grabbed Bova's Mars because I've been meaning to look into the series, but I was put off by the publishing date, given the colossal amount we've learned about Mars since then. Ended up reading a bit of the Dreaming City from Stealer of Souls after skimming the intro pieces.

[Rasix]

Finished Game of Thrones recently.  While I'm hunting for a TPB copy of the second one (I want something I can prop open), I'm starting on the Black Company books.    I'm about 50 pages in and utterly lost, but I like the writing style.

Bought Chronicles of the Black Company after Sam showed me a compilation was out.  15 quid for the first 3, so I'm reading it just now.

I know, I know.  Fuck off.

It can be a bit confusing and cumbersome at first, but stick with it.

Make sure to read Silver Spike when you're done.  I'd be interested to see your reaction to that one. 

[Ironwood]

Thus far it reminds me of the Pilot for Game of Thrones, but already I can see where Locke Lamora and Logen Ninefingers got their start.  Interesting.

[bhodi]

I'll be honest. I didn't enjoy the black company in paper form. Something about the writing style made my mind wander and realized I had missed an important bit that was in one sentence buried in a paragraph I had skimmed without even realizing it.

It was much, much better in audiobook form.

[Merusk]

I hate you all, as I read my Kaplan guide to Construction Methodology. 

[WayAbvPar]

I'll be honest. I didn't enjoy the black company in paper form. Something about the writing style made my mind wander and realized I had missed an important bit that was in one sentence buried in a paragraph I had skimmed without even realizing it.

It was much, much better in audiobook form.

I got about a million times more out of the first 3 books when I re-read them- I tend to daydream a bit when I read as well, and missed some stuff. Re-reading GRRM now and caught a ton of stuff in some of the dreams/visions from Dany's POVs that I never noticed before (like the Red Wedding being foreshadowed).

[Ingmar]

There's a ton of stuff like that in all the various prophecies/dreams/etc., yeah. Incredibly nerdy spoilerific rundown here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/

[Chimpy]

Not sure what to get into next, probably just stick to study guides for now. I grabbed Imager, but I'm not sure I'm up for more Modesitt.

I really liked the Imager stuff. It is much better put together on the whole than the Corean Chronicles stuff in my opinion.

[Johny Cee]

Scott Bakker's latest, The White-Luck Warrior, is out now.

It's The Silmarillion meets Dune, written by a guy with a PhD in philosophy.  Been savoring this book by only reading 30 or 40 pages at a time.

Gimme a general thumbs up or thumbs down when you get finished.  I loved the first trilogy he did, but haven't read any of the aspect emperor.

Finished last night.  Overall, I liked it quite a bit.

Like the previous books, there are sections that you will have to push through a bit.  They work and are well written, but 50 pages of Esmenet whining and obsessing to herself is a bit ugh.  It's build up for some great "oh shit!" encounters, though.  Some great revelations in the last 50 pages.


Bakker's pacing in doling out bits and pieces of the grand story arc is top-notch.  I agree, he kind of fell down a bit in the last book of the first trilogy in that alot of that felt like filler while setting up the epic conclusion....  no such problem here.  Kellhus doesn't get a POV, so we have to infer his motivations and plans from his actions, which works well.


Bakker tips his hat explicitly to Tolkien a couple of times (we get a sequence from the Hobbit in this one... and it is great), but those scenes are frankly some of the best in the book. 

[ghost]

Thanks man.  I'm going to order them now.  I really liked the first three but there were a lot of loose ends.  It sounds like these get wrapped up some.

[Ironwood]

Finished book one.  Seriously flawed.

 

[Chimpy]

Were you entertained though?

[Reg]

"Seriously flawed" doesn't sound too terrible. Not from Ironwood anyway. 

[Chimpy]

"Seriously flawed" doesn't sound too terrible. Not from Ironwood anyway.  

He is probably right though, I don't think anyone would ever call Cook's writing "high art" by any stretch. I have slept a lot (and read a lot of books) since I read the Black Company so I can barely remember much other than a couple of main characters at this point.

[Reg]

I haven't reread the Black Company books in a long time either. I'm halfway through his latest "Instrumentalities of the Night" book right now and I'm enjoying it a lot but I'm sure his writing style has gotten better and more polished in the last 30 years.

[bhodi]

On the third Joe Pitt book by Charlie Huston. It's really good. I'm enjoying it immensely. Only 5 books, I'm going to be sad when it's over, but the ride is hard and fast right now.

[Johny Cee]

On the third Joe Pitt book by Charlie Huston. It's really good. I'm enjoying it immensely. Only 5 books, I'm going to be sad when it's over, but the ride is hard and fast right now.

Charlie Huston is a hell of a writer. 

His non-genre crime novels are worth reading...  I really enjoyed The Shotgun Rule (coming of age, crime, and sins of their fathers) and The Mystic Arts of Erasing All Signs of Death (broken man who is a giant asshole starts on the path to some kind of redemption after getting a job as a crime scene cleaner).

Mystic Arts was developed by HBO as a series, but didn't make it out of pilot.


He is kind of depressing... most of his work seems to be "bad shit happens to vaguely sympathetic people".

[Johny Cee]

I haven't reread the Black Company books in a long time either. I'm halfway through his latest "Instrumentalities of the Night" book right now and I'm enjoying it a lot but I'm sure his writing style has gotten better and more polished in the last 30 years.

Actually, the writing style of the Black Company was intentional:  the narrators are supposed to sound like Average Joe blue-collar types.  In interviews, he's said he had to fight with editors to stop cleaning up the grammar and language.

The first Dread Empire trilogy (which in the rerelease by Nightshade they had Steven Erikson and Jeff Vandermeer write gushing introductions for) has far more polished (and traditional third person) writing, and that's from the '70s.  The Black Company was actually his seventh or eighth novel.


I'm a giant sucker for first-person unreliable narrators, though.  I still buy all of Gene Wolfe's new releases in hardcover.

[Ironwood]

Look, that's fine, but it's flawed for one main reason and I can't decide if it's intentional or not.

In War, things get confused.  Fights and battles and people all blend into one and it really doesn't matter, you just trudge from one blanket of misery to another.   If he's written that intentionally, that's all well and good....

BUT

It makes for shite writing.  People, places, reasons, enemies all merge into one another in a big confusing mess and though it gets some level of clarity, I ended the last page on the first book thinking 'Well, that fucking sucked.'  Sure, the only thread you need to follow is very clear from the outset (and, frankly, fucking predictable) but the rest of it just fucking sucks.  The Taken are totally fucking dispensible cunts that get swapped more often than than dildos in a feature length lesbian film.  It doesn't help that all these fucking cute names they have are shared by both enemy and friend. 

It's kinda bad.  Though, as I mentioned, I totally see what it influenced and made better in other later novels and authors and Amen to that.

I'll read the other two books and I suspect they'll improve, but if I hadn't bought a compilation I'd be giving up right now and looking at 126 pages of book thread in a different light...

[Khaldun]

It's been a while since I read it, but aren't the Taken meant to be disposable in that fashion? E.g., from the Company's perspective, it's all who-gives-a-shit until or unless they're asked to do something truly evil. This is terrain that a lot of post-Cook, post-Martin fiction is trying to work through--killing the shit out of people is one thing, and not particularly awful in the grand scheme of things, evil is something more intimate and particular. But I do remember thinking that only Croaker and the wizards (tom-tom, one-eye, etc.) particularly seemed like memorably specific characters.

[Sand]

Always heard the Black Company sucked, which is why it has its own meme/prank of trying to get people to read it. Looks like Ironwood fell for it.
I never will! 

[Paelos]

I'll read the other two books and I suspect they'll improve, but if I hadn't bought a compilation I'd be giving up right now and looking at 126 pages of book thread in a different light...

The first book was the weakest of them, but that's always been my view of most writers. Honestly (and this sucks to say) the best Glen Cook Black Company books were the later ones in the series where he got a little bit more experimental with his plots and style.

[Rasix]

Always heard the Black Company sucked, which is why it has its own meme/prank of trying to get people to read it. Looks like Ironwood fell for it.
I never will!  

 

edit: Happy Easter!  Edited for niceness. But seriously....

[Chimpy]

Rasix, I like the way you think and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Rasix]

Rasix, I like the way you think and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Ahh,  now that I edited it this won't make sense. Apologies.