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Topic: Blood bowl resources/questions (Read 169428 times)
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Megrim
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Posts: 2512
Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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Sorry to drag the discussion back to this - I think it has a lot to do with the way they are played. Not to point accusatory fingers, but I suspect you guys haven't quite gotten the most out of your teams, at least from what I've seen. At least, some of the things you should be able to pull of with the skill access you have is very powerful regardless of Tackle.
I think I'm playing you next. What skills should have been taken? (Note, 7 out of my 13 players have a stat increase which may colour it a bit). The stat boosts certainly do affect it, and the other skillpicks are going to depend heavily on the league meta as well as a player's individual style. For example however, I remember looking through your own and Falconeer's teams, and not seeing even a single Dirty Player. Given how cost-efficient Amazon lineplayers are (up there along with the Norse) , it's very surprising to me that neither of you have sought to even out some of the av7 attrition rates through judicious use of fouling. Another thing was the lack of any real slayer pieces (MB, Piling On, Jump-up on doubles, etc...), although you do have that wonderful st-boosted Blitzer. Very little Fend, and not much Wrestle either, both of which I think benefit av7 teams a heck of a lot more than they do others. Things like that; it is obviously going to be somewhat situational based on the players involved - but this was the impression which I had.
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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Megrim
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2512
Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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The +1 also means that even an agility 2 player has a 50% chance of succeeding at a dodge, or a 75% chance with a reroll -- so the part about how your Ogre will totally fail any second dodge in the turn, while probably a good way to think about it most of the time, is not strictly true if the situation becomes desperate enough. Just make sure the first dodge of the turn is the really hard one, if you're going to dodge more than once.
Just wanted to point out that loner makes it 62.5% with reroll. That said if you're desperate enough and all of your other moves are finished, you've only got about an 11% chance of suffering a casualty if you fail. I was going to say, is that figuring into it the fact that he is a Loner, so the rr is going to be a coinflip to just work in the first place.
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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Ice Cream Emperor
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Posts: 654
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I didn't figure in the Loner, no, but even a 50% chance is a lot better than 'totally going to fail no matter what', which is I think how a lot of people tend to think of agi 2 dodges. I have dodged zombies into crucial positions before -- and yes, absolutely as the last play or as a last-ditch effort, but it does actually work half the time, even without a reroll.
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carnifex27
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Posts: 250
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I don't know personally. It's kind of like fouling for me, with a zombie sure, but your 200k+ ogre? I'd have to be pretty desperate. That being said, I've dodged my Krox into open spaces to mark up ballcarriers, but I always hold my breath when I do it
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Comstar
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Posts: 1952
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I very rarely foul - I nearly always need that spare lineswomen tagging someone or acting as a blocker and giving out tacklezones on a close or loose cage (or putting pressure on the ball carrier). Also most of my lineswomen got lucky on their initial roles - two of them have guard, and 3 of them have a stat increase. I was going to give one of my 2 benchwarming lineswomen Dirty player...and she just rolled +1ST on her first skill. My TV is so high already that having a 3rd benchwarmer is pushing it, and I like having 4 rerolls plus a leader reroll.
I do need more girls with Wrestle though.
It's going to be weird playing my game vs your High Elves- I have the ST advantage for once! In my game vs the Wood Elves I got lucky - the Treeman moved ONE square in the entire game and I think threw a total of 2 blocks.
Also, why would you choose +1 armour over +1 Movement when you already have armour 8?
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 11:18:33 AM by Comstar »
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Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
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Megrim
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2512
Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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Well, to make things easier for you, I don't even have a Treeman =p
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42632
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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Wow. Just got to manage my High Elf team at lunch, had 3 level ups from my failoff game against SirT. One of them was Lhynn Swann, a level 1 catcher. Lo and behold, he levels and gets a double - and I just had to give him the +1 STR he got from the roll. Seriously, a 4 STR elven catcher with 8 MA? Just when I think I am going to retire this team for the next f13 season, something like that happens that makes me want to play it again.
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Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542
The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid
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I too rarely foul, as I feel like I have a pretty high chance of being sent off, and often times I would rather have my person stay in the game. I also don't use wrestle, as I have universal block. I see how it could be nice, even with block...but there just always seem to be more-important skills to take. I'm just sort of excited about the next game, as I might even have the chance to play with all of my rerolls if I want.
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Fear the Backstab! "Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion "Hell is other people." -Sartre
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Sjofn
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I rarely foul because I can hardly afford to get a dude sent off when half of them have probably gone off due to injury already. Although I could look at it more like "WHAT'S ONE MORE REALLY IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS?"
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God Save the Horn Players
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Ingmar
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Fouling is something you do with a cheap piece vs. an expensive piece, and usually only if you have a numbers advantage or something too good to pass up. (IMO - there are other philosophies out there towards fouling.) I almost never foul with dwarves, because there are no cheap dwarves. Exception: towards the end of one of those big 8 turn drives, fouling with the deathroller isn't awful, as it has dirty player and is about to get sent off anyway.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Ruvaldt
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Posts: 2398
Goat Variations
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Wow. Just got to manage my High Elf team at lunch, had 3 level ups from my failoff game against SirT. One of them was Lhynn Swann, a level 1 catcher. Lo and behold, he levels and gets a double - and I just had to give him the +1 STR he got from the roll. Seriously, a 4 STR elven catcher with 8 MA? Just when I think I am going to retire this team for the next f13 season, something like that happens that makes me want to play it again.
Not only that, but you got it as his first level up so you can use that to build your entire set of skills. A 4STR catcher with 8 MA is begging to be made into a sacker/ball remover ala a blitzing gutter runner. High Elf teams usually need to develop one anyway, but yours would be killer.
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"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
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Celer
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Posts: 167
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I very much miss fouling, High Elves don't really have the luxury. Give me a cheap line-skeleton though, and I will make sure his boots are always dirty!
You obviously(?) have a 1/6 chance of rolling doubles on the armor roll. If you break armor, you have an injury roll that is another 1/6 chance of rolling doubles. There are various threads on the Cyanide forums that break out the statistics around fouling, but the gist is that you want to get the target down to AV 6 or so (each assist dropping the target AV by 1) before you're more likely to injure the target than to be sent off yourself. The fact that the injury will most likely be a stun or KO (which may or may not wake up later), whereas the ejection will always last the whole game, means that it's less "risky" to foul in the second half (when there will be fewer chances for that KO to wake up).
I sitll wouldn't do it with anyone other than a lineman, and preferably on a higher-value target, but if you have some cheap linemen available, you really should be getting your boots dirty on occasion!
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Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542
The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid
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Exception: towards the end of one of those big 8 turn drives, fouling with the deathroller isn't awful, as it has dirty player and is about to get sent off anyway.
Ideally, I would look to foul with a Deathroller at the end of Turn 6 on a drive where I have uncontested possession and don't NEED the deathroller to finish it. - Foul turn 6, don't get sent off, foul turn 7, score turn 8.
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Fear the Backstab! "Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion "Hell is other people." -Sartre
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Sky
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Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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For my lvl 4 Thrower with block and leader for previous skillups: Accurate or Nerves of Steel?
I can see Accurate being more helpful overall, but since orcs tend to be up-close and personal, I could see Nerves of Steel being reallly useful when I need it. And most of my passing problems stem more from the catching than the throwing, so I'm leaning toward Nerves.
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Comstar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1952
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I'd say accurate, but since I started playing Pro Elves, Nerves of Steel is hilarious. Surrounded on all sides? No problem, pass it to someone else!
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Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
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Teleku
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Nerves of steal is great, but its much more useful on your catchers. Its actually pretty rare when I find my thrower marked on all sides so I cant just make an easy dodge away and then pass (and I've already fucked up very badly somehow if it actually gets to that point). Having said that, its a good idea for a passing team to develop a normal QB and an offensive QB. The offensive QB being somebody who charges in when kicking off to the opponent, skilled so he can pick up the ball out of a crowd and pass it away if somebody manages to knock it loose. That's the one you want Nerves of Steal for.
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"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor." -Stephen Colbert
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Megrim
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2512
Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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I very rarely foul - I nearly always need that spare lineswomen tagging someone or acting as a blocker and giving out tacklezones on a close or loose cage (or putting pressure on the ball carrier). Also most of my lineswomen got lucky on their initial roles - two of them have guard, and 3 of them have a stat increase. I was going to give one of my 2 benchwarming lineswomen Dirty player...and she just rolled +1ST on her first skill. My TV is so high already that having a 3rd benchwarmer is pushing it, and I like having 4 rerolls plus a leader reroll.
I do need more girls with Wrestle though.
It's going to be weird playing my game vs your High Elves- I have the ST advantage for once! In my game vs the Wood Elves I got lucky - the Treeman moved ONE square in the entire game and I think threw a total of 2 blocks.
Also, why would you choose +1 armour over +1 Movement when you already have armour 8?
Sorry, I hadn't seen that you'd edited your post to include that question. Reason being that the lineman in question had Guard already, so I would like for him him to stay on the pitch and alive for as long as possible. On the other hand, mv6 -> mv7 isn't that big a deal on a HE team, at least not when compared to av8 -> av9 on a key player.
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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lamaros
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Posts: 8021
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Claws or +1mv? A 9 MV blitzer is pretty tempting, but so is MB and piling on with claws... Without claws the stats are 15 games, 2 killed, 15 injured, 5 KOs... with claws the sky might be the limit.
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Ruvaldt
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I'd go claws. No question.
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"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
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Ice Cream Emperor
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Posts: 654
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I'd go claws. No question.
Especially given that he has Piling On. Jump Up is another option as well, for that matter.
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Ruvaldt
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Posts: 2398
Goat Variations
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I'd go claws. No question.
Especially given that he has Piling On. Exactly. You have a player tailor made for creating casualties. Giving him claw accentuates those skills that he already has. Giving him another point of movement over claws doesn't make much sense because you already have gutter runners for that stuff. Unless your GRs suck, and I don't think that they do or else you probably wouldn't have a fifth level stormvermin to begin with.
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"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
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lamaros
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Posts: 8021
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Yeah I went with the claw after I posted. 9 mv would have been funny though, fastest team on earth!
Have a +str GR and Thrower... Wish my f13 team was as lucky with the rolls. Been out injuring so many teams with this guys and my foulers, including chaos and orc.
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Megrim
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Posts: 2512
Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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With both MB and PO on that rat, Claw is a no-brainer. If you had Guard on him, I would have taken +AV, then Stand Firm for a really fast proto-Orc.
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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Ingmar
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I kind of lean towards jump up myself, but claw is obviously a fine pick.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Sir T
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The second lonk on setting up a port forwarding article on the OP no longer works
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Hic sunt dracones.
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Modern Angel
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Posts: 3553
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Pile On. Does it default to "always jump on a dude" when you make a new league? Or do you not have a choice and will always Pile On if you have Frenzy as well?
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Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542
The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid
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You have to toggle the skill in your settings to have have it automatically work. I believe it's client-specific, as opposed to tied to a particular league. With my 2 zerkers, I'm definitely a fan of the skill.
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Fear the Backstab! "Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion "Hell is other people." -Sartre
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lamaros
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Posts: 8021
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One of the most fun skills going around. My Skaven guy with MB, Claw, Piling On, Tackle was running at two plus casualties per game. Then he died. Rerolled to died. I was unhappy.
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Modern Angel
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Yeah, I never messed with it but I have a Skaven team and put it on my Rat Ogre. He's, uh.... yeah. Wow. It's just that it's always on by default so it's not always smart.
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Ingmar
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It is well worth going through the skills and setting a bunch of them to prompt you. Off the top of my head, other than piling on you probably also want to do that with at least multiple block and wrestle.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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IainC
Developers
Posts: 6538
Wargaming.net
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Multiple Block, Wrestle, Piling On, Diving Tackle, Dump Off, Shadowing. Basically anything that puts you prone, makes you move or let go of the ball automatically.
Piling on is a lot of fun but I don't recommend putting it on big guys as the Wild Animal/Bonehead/Take Root + loner will bite you in the ass. Piling on + Jump Up is a particularly good combo on a blitzer.
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avaia
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I swear this was a topic before, but Hail Mary Pass needs to be set to ASK as well.
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Ingmar
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I can't see myself taking Piling On in most cases unless I already have Jump Up on the piece. At least not on a slow team like dwarves. I need my tackle zones more than I need an armor reroll. It would be another thing if I was specifically setting out to build a killer claw/MB/PO beastman or something.
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542
The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid
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Norse Beserkers.
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Fear the Backstab! "Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion "Hell is other people." -Sartre
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Ruvaldt
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Posts: 2398
Goat Variations
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It would be another thing if I was specifically setting out to build a killer claw/MB/PO beastman or something.
Millard Fillmore is counting the days. Beardstorm here we come!
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"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
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