Dark Days Are Coming - New Funcom Project

[gryeyes]

Ive had more fun with the riddles than i did with AoC. So my expectations have already been surpassed.

[Hindenburg]

So what is it? is it my low post count or my dislike of AoC that has your blood boiling Falconeer?

Your persecution complex is quite annoying.

[SeaCell]

So what is it? is it my low post count or my dislike of AoC that has your blood boiling Falconeer?

Your persecution complex is quite annoying.

So I am told

[UnSub]

Why am i highly suspect of TSW?, hell everyone should be with their track record.

Being suspect doesn't mean I also can't be interested. I actually think Funcom has a good chance of folding before we ever see TSW - after all, Funcom also promised a casual MMO to come out before Xmas this year in their investor information that I haven't seen anything else about - but it is at least going somewhere different.

[schild]

So what is it? is it my low post count or my dislike of AoC that has your blood boiling Falconeer?

FunCom started as a company that was imaginative and 'scratch built' MMO ideas and has slowly slid toward being one that cobbles together piss poor replicas of what has worked for other games,  chasing after bigger market share.

Why am i highly suspect of TSW?, hell everyone should be with their track record.

As for "they say no levels no classes!' .. Anyone who was an FC customer prior to AoC can recite strings of examples of FC making statements that don't remotely resemble what they actually deliver. AO Vets still mock FC anytime they make big promises with a simple "There will be no camping in Shadowlands!"

No one's claming they expect god's gift to MMOGs out of them. You just have a lot of sand in your vagina. There's nothing wrong with WANTING a company to make something good. Because generally, when something fails, it kills that setting for other companies. The INDUSTRY should want them to do TSW right, and so should you. So quit your bitching and go play some Peggle or something.

[SeaCell]

I admit I am being a buzz-kill about this title. I guess I, like a lot of AO vets, we were very disappointed when FC tried to climb out of niche and go mainstream and we watched them tank again. As fans we took it more personal.

[Hindenburg]

Did you just call AoC mainstream? 

[SeaCell]

Did you just call AoC mainstream? 

Pretty sure I said TRIED

[SnakeCharmer]

You think they honestly tried to be mainstream with AoC?

Heh.  Nah.

They knew they were niche.  It's just that niche is a bigger market than it used to be 5 years ago.

[SeaCell]

You think they honestly tried to be mainstream with AoC?

Heh.  Nah.

They knew they were niche.  It's just that niche is a bigger market than it used to be 5 years ago.

Well Gamer-build-their-own rig mainstream. not Soccer-mom-afk-microwaving-mac-n-cheese-while-in-a-25 man mainstream.

[Ghambit]

Why didnt they just buy the rights to produce a Shadowrun MMO instead of this?
I mean, I like the premise behind TSW and I'm excited... but it still leaves me wanting, as usual.   I guarantee you Ragnar used some inspiration from SRUN; so again, just phreakin make SRUN: Online!

p.s.
Kind of interesting that the acronym for the game: "TSW" is the same as the publishing company responsible for Cyberpunk: 2020 (R. Talsorian).  eewwweeooo   

p.p.s.
There better be cyberpunk elements to this game.

... i'm sorry (I'll go to my corner now)

[gryeyes]

What exactly is giving you the shadowrun vibe? Im thinking more a modern lovecraft,occult detective vibe. Someone please invest in Smith and Tinker SR:online would be goodness.

[Ghambit]

What exactly is giving you the shadowrun vibe? Im thinking more a modern lovecraft,occult detective vibe. Someone please invest in Smith and Tinker SR:online would be goodness.

The world within the world.
There's secret magic, secret corps, and secret folk out to fight against "whatever."
It's modern.
SRUN has horror elements, along with demons and monsters.
TSW (if they're smart) will have cyberpunk elements.

I dunno, maybe they're going for a modern Call of Cthulhu vibe here... I'm definitely feeling some pnp RPG-ness in this thing the more I study it though.
It'd behoove them to incorporate SOME kind of "Humanity" statistic. Srun, Cpunk, and CoC all had consequences for overly embracing technology or getting lost in the horrific "secrets" of the world - driving one mad.

I'd code it as some kind of psychotic AoE rage that kills any PC nearby.

[UnSub]

I'd code it as some kind of psychotic AoE rage that kills any PC nearby.

No, I can't see any griefing potential in that AT ALL.

[Margalis]

Will be interesting to see what they do with this.

I've always thought the problem with a modernish MMO would be the lack of item and enemy variety. We'll see how creative they can get.

I like the premise. I think the world is ready for a horror-themed MMO, or at least I am.

[schild]

I've always thought the problem with a modernish MMO would be the lack of item and enemy variety.

Really? Really?

What's it like in that box?

[Falconeer]

So what is it? is it my low post count or my dislike of AoC that has your blood boiling Falconeer?

Just your lack of coherence. Being suspicious of TSW, as of any other pre-launch MMORPG, is reasonable. Being suspicious for the supposed lack of depth of AoC is not. That is all.

And I'm sincerely sorry for the low post count thing. I hate every form of bullying and I hate that it seemed so. Obviously that is not it. Many on this thread are suspicious, I just found your reasons to be a joke. No harsh feelings.

[Margalis]

I've always thought the problem with a modernish MMO would be the lack of item and enemy variety.

Really? Really?

What's it like in that box?

In a fantasy setting you can pretty much just throw anything in there and say "hey, it's magic." Just about any animal real or fictional can be an enemy and any mechanic can be explained away. In a modern setting you're dealing mostly with everyday items and weapons and humanoid enemies.

Now they could get creative and have you fight all sorts of strange otherworldly beasts, but they could also just make it a mix of humanoid vamps, werewolves, ghouls, etc. In a fantasy setting people will accept lazyness - hey it's a giant crab! Hey it's a giant rat! I think in a modern setting that kind of lazy design shows through more.

The setting they've chosen probably makes it a lot easier than something like The Agency or APB, but still makes it harder than fantasy IMO. Also weilding melee weapons creates more visual distinction than weilding different guns in that melee animations can be much more varied than firing animations.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that they'll have to be more creative than typical MMOs.

[UnSub]

The early promises look very good. Very good indeed. Tornquist has claimed a long-tailed character advancement system that is also aiming to avoid the grind.

[Falwell]

Christ it's good to be back in the States..

Anyways, calling it now, they're gonna steal the weapon mod system from Hellgate.

Also Schild, give me a yell on steam next time ya see me on, I'll fill ya in on my absence.

[Yoru]

What exactly is giving you the shadowrun vibe? Im thinking more a modern lovecraft,occult detective vibe. Someone please invest in Smith and Tinker SR:online would be goodness.

The world within the world.
There's secret magic, secret corps, and secret folk out to fight against "whatever."
It's modern.
SRUN has horror elements, along with demons and monsters.
TSW (if they're smart) will have cyberpunk elements.

I dunno, maybe they're going for a modern Call of Cthulhu vibe here... I'm definitely feeling some pnp RPG-ness in this thing the more I study it though.
It'd behoove them to incorporate SOME kind of "Humanity" statistic. Srun, Cpunk, and CoC all had consequences for overly embracing technology or getting lost in the horrific "secrets" of the world - driving one mad.

I'd code it as some kind of psychotic AoE rage that kills any PC nearby.

A lot of modern-setting conspiracy games have these elements to one degree or another. Vampire/WOD & Shadowrun, certainly. Lesser-known franchises like Conspiracy X and Delta Green also have them, Cold City to a far lesser extent, and so on. Hell, see Deus Ex as well (sans the magic).

Anyway, I'll reserve judgment until they have something to actually show that isn't an exec shooting his mouth off or a cinematic. Talk is cheap.

[Hawkbit]

*TSW begins where other MMOs end.*

wtf does that mean?  We start at level 80 in full raid gear?  j/k

Exciting ideas here, at least it's a novel setting.  

[Lucas]

It *sounds* like fun: looks like somewhat "theme park" with different kinds of missions, ranging from pure action, to a more puzzle/graphic adventure approach. I'm totally fine with some sort of central hub with instanced stuff branching out from it, kinda like Guild Wars, which is still the MMOG (ok, ok, "Cooperative multiplayer", alright :P) I played the most beside UO (but LOTRO is rapidly kidnapping my soul  ).

[Falconeer]

Unknown Armies would be a good license.

[Brogarn]

Image snipped.

Ok, that I like. Looks like a page ripped from a PnP RPG book. Awesome.

[Draegan]

http://www.darkdemonscrygaia.com/showpost.php?p=29943&postcount=2

Someone put up a timeline of the game.  Some stuff in there that may be new to you or interesting.  At least it'll update you on the game.

Edit to add: It's updated to 2007.  But a decent background.

[Draegan]

This project started before Age of Conan, but what have you learned from Age of Conan's launch that you can apply to this?

*laughs* I knew that question was coming! But no, you're right, the original project, called Cabal, started in 2002. I think that Conan had a pretty good launch and it's holding incredibly well. I mean it's one of the best selling PC games in the last year, which is really fantastic.

In terms of a launch, Anarchy Online had a horrible launch, but the game was pretty deep. Once they actually fixed all of the bugs, the game has obviously lived ever since and is still going strong. With Conan, they had a pretty smooth launch, but I think people realized that aspects of the game weren't quite what they had hoped for or what they had expected.

I think a combination of those two launches shows us the importance of not only a technically perfect launch, in terms of server uptime and things like that, but to also have a game that's proven to work for a long time, to have a longer beta period, to make sure that we're very very confident about the RPG system, and to invest that extra time. I think that's our team's takeaway; to be absolutely sure that we have the content and the mechanics that will support people for a long time and not just for that initial launch month.

We really, really respect alot of what the Conan guys have done, and I think the combat system worked really well, and I think there are elements of that game that we are taking away. With that said, we are a different team and we had our designs in place before Conan was launched, and we have made our decisions and we feel those are the right ones. Hopefully Conan will live for a long time and hopefully we will be able to live peacefully with them and not cut into their player base, as we are two completely different games.

Massively Interview with Tornquist

There are a few other interesting quotes.

Like...

[New York, London, Seoul is] where you'll start your gameplay, but they won't be the large, huge open zones where you have tons of gameplay or tons of monsters. That will be left to areas like Egypt and New England, which will be more expansive and include more open-world mechanics and other things that we're not revealing quite yet. We will also be including more instanced and team-based areas as well.

and one more that piqued my interest...

So, would your target audience be someone who has played MMOs?

I think a large part of our target audience is who are playing or have played MMOs. We want it to be different enough for them to come back or a game that is different enough to have them come to play it with their friends. In addition to action/adventure gamers who play games like Fable 2 for the Xbox 360 and just want to try their hand at something that's online and not feel completely eliminated and have something that's recognizable to them.

[Arrrgh]

Tornquist shouldn't show his face for a while. The memories of him going on about how wonderful Age of Conan would be are still too fresh.

[Falconeer]

For 7 days Age of Conan was wonderful for pretty much anyone not into Gwar shoulderpads. He was sincere, he only didn't play over the first week.

[HaemishM]

Modern-day horror setting w/ no classes and no levels? Well, I'm certainly more intrigued than I was yesterday. But... you know, Funcom. Show me.

[Zzulo]

but to also have a game that's proven to work for a long time, to have a longer beta period, to make sure that we're very very confident about the RPG system, and to invest that extra time. I think that's our team's takeaway; to be absolutely sure that we have the content and the mechanics that will support people for a long time and not just for that initial launch month.

Well, good to hear that they recognize that AoC needed about a year extra in beta and worth of content. Hopefully they won't rush TSW. I'll admit that AoC could have been decent if it was delayed.

[Ghambit]

I've always thought the problem with a modernish MMO would be the lack of item and enemy variety.

Really? Really?

What's it like in that box?

In a fantasy setting you can pretty much just throw anything in there and say "hey, it's magic." Just about any animal real or fictional can be an enemy and any mechanic can be explained away. In a modern setting you're dealing mostly with everyday items and weapons and humanoid enemies.

Now they could get creative and have you fight all sorts of strange otherworldly beasts, but they could also just make it a mix of humanoid vamps, werewolves, ghouls, etc. In a fantasy setting people will accept lazyness - hey it's a giant crab! Hey it's a giant rat! I think in a modern setting that kind of lazy design shows through more.

The setting they've chosen probably makes it a lot easier than something like The Agency or APB, but still makes it harder than fantasy IMO. Also weilding melee weapons creates more visual distinction than weilding different guns in that melee animations can be much more varied than firing animations.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just that they'll have to be more creative than typical MMOs.

wth are you smoking dude?  Have you ever seen/played/read stuff like Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, D20:Modern/Future, Call of Cthulhu, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.   They all BLOW AWAY virtually any Fantasy system there is when it comes to gear and stats.
Fantasy systems are slight variations on the same crap... it's all sword and board, but with different stats.  In modern/cyber settings, you have EVERY weapon known (or unknown) to man at your disposal (meaning all of fantasy of course), including magic, psionics, genomics, cyberware, etc. [the list is endless really]
There isnt an MMO system I've seen that can even come close to handling the shear volume of crap you can play with in any one of the settings I just stated... Shadowrun especially.

I think you've just been brainwashed and deprived... and for that, you are forgiven.  :)

They dont have to be creative at all btw.  They just have to implement what's already there for them... something most devs have proven to be severely lacking at, to the point I'm convinced most of them are stricken with some sort of debilitating social disorder.  Because really, the stuff they do doesnt make sense.

Funcom would be making a serious mistake if they dont glean from pnp modern/future/horror systems already out there.  Specifically the cyberpunk and cthulhu mythos'... which have been combined many times already to great success generally.  All that being said, I think this game would be EASIER to design and develop than a standard Fantasy game, because really...  you're not having to re-invent the wheel here like you are with Fantasy.  All you have to do is implement old ideas that just havent made it into games previously (at least collectively) and voila - you're dubbed a genius.... like Blizzard did with WoW basically

[Draegan]

I heard the gear/stat system was awesome in AO.

He specifically mentions the stats and spreedsheet stuff is there for the hardcore players in the massively interview.

[K9]

I heard the gear/stat system was awesome in AO.

He specifically mentions the stats and spreedsheet stuff is there for the hardcore players in the massively interview.

It was awesomely complicated, there were many skills and each class could raise any or all of them. However, in the long run the system didn't scale well for various reasons and was incredibly hard to untangle. For newcomers it was also incredibly opaque, it was more or less a given that the first character you made in AO would end up being abandoned or gimped, as beginner players wouldn't have a clue what to raise. They rectified this with changes surrounding the Lost Eden expansion, although the system itself remained as complex as ever.

In a way it was a very clever system, by having classes they ensured some distinction, however there was a lot of scope within a class to be very unique without being gimped in any way. For people who like complex game systems it was a lot of fun.

The gear was a bit hit and miss. There were some stages of AO where gear made sense, but it gradually degenerated into mudflation as different subsets of gear and abilities got buffed while others didn't, leading to off outscaling problems. One of the developers (Means) did state that the skill system somewhat boxed them in, and was too big and complicated to change.

I would love a game with a skill system of the same complexity as AO's, however I worry that so many disparate elements can actually be sensibly balanced.

[Yoru]

wth are you smoking dude?  Have you ever seen/played/read stuff like Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, D20:Modern/Future, Call of Cthulhu, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.   They all BLOW AWAY virtually any Fantasy system there is when it comes to gear and stats.
Fantasy systems are slight variations on the same crap... it's all sword and board, but with different stats.  In modern/cyber settings, you have EVERY weapon known (or unknown) to man at your disposal (meaning all of fantasy of course), including magic, psionics, genomics, cyberware, etc. [the list is endless really]
There isnt an MMO system I've seen that can even come close to handling the shear volume of crap you can play with in any one of the settings I just stated... Shadowrun especially.

Sufficiently Advanced.