Why all the flak?

[Arrrgh]

All you WoW PvP haters who are tried of getting steamrollered by groups in epics should try a 19 or 29 BG twink. It's not hard to put together a well geared twink, and then you know longer need to worry about being out-epiced. You're also safe from mudflation in the expansion.  In BG5 we usually have 20ish level 29 WS instances running at prime time, and about half that number of ABs.

http://www.battlegroundforums.com/forum/index.php

[OcellotJenkins]

All you WoW PvP haters who are tried of getting steamrollered by groups in epics should try a 19 or 29 BG twink. It's not hard to put together a well geared twink, and then you know longer need to worry about being out-epiced. You're also safe from mudflation in the expansion.  In BG5 we usually have 20ish level 29 WS instances running at prime time, and about half that number of ABs.

http://www.battlegroundforums.com/forum/index.php

My guild has recently formed a Nintendo themed level 19 twink team.  Megamangina, Excitedike, Zeldatits, Duckunt, and the crew are having a freaking blast.  It's a nice change of pace from raiding.

[Strazos]

All you WoW PvP haters who are tried of getting steamrollered by groups in epics should try a 19 or 29 BG twink. It's not hard to put together a well geared twink, and then you know longer need to worry about being out-epiced. You're also safe from mudflation in the expansion.  In BG5 we usually have 20ish level 29 WS instances running at prime time, and about half that number of ABs.

http://www.battlegroundforums.com/forum/index.php

You either have to grind up a toon so you can grind for cash and farm instances to gear the twink, or buy gold from the Chinese.

[Viin]

... WoW takes skill ...

Yah, in time management. Juggling your job, gf, and WoW is bound to make you lose at least one of them.

[El Gallo]

WoW made us happy.  But, if there's one thing people here hate at all costs, it's happiness.  So we obsess about minutae until we blow them up into something hate-worthy.  Then we aren't happy anymore, which makes us very happy. 

Capiche?

[Nevermore]

The only reason I can't play WoW anymore is because I despise huge raids, and that's all there is to do at the high-end game.  I also dislike how grindy it gets at high level and how loot-centric the game is.  But it's the big raids that just kills the game for me.  From 1-59 I loved the game.  Not enough to just keep rerolling new characters though, so I cancelled and haven't really missed it.

[tkinnun0]

A few big failures (*cough*LOTRO/Vanguard/Warhammer*cough*)

Lack of content/polish/content.

Just a prediction, I'm not in any of their betas.

[Xanthippe]

For who/what? What's this all about?

The OP with his 4 post count and invitations for us to discuss WoW.  Needs material I think.

I don't think so.  You guys are too paranoid. 

[Tebonas]

I don't think so.  You guys are too paranoid. 

Not we are not! Why do you say that? Whats your agenda? I think you are up to something!

[squirrel]

All you WoW PvP haters who are tried of getting steamrollered by groups in epics should try a 19 or 29 BG twink. It's not hard to put together a well geared twink, and then you know longer need to worry about being out-epiced. You're also safe from mudflation in the expansion.  In BG5 we usually have 20ish level 29 WS instances running at prime time, and about half that number of ABs.

http://www.battlegroundforums.com/forum/index.php

That's not really the issue though. As someone who had a full epic rogue before i left the problem is not soley with the gear imbalance. It's with the design of the PvP environment. Take DAoC as an example - while a RR1 noob would get owned by rr10 ToA'd players, it was still fun because the design allowed for a player to make an impact on the gameworld by taking part in PvP. That goes triple for Shadowbane. WoW's gear imbalances coupled with the college football style BG's and a retarded honour system result in a totally flawed PvP environment.

[Phred]

Has anyone seen this yet? 

The next planned content patch will contain a matching system for the battlegrounds that will attempt to pair up groups based on various factors, including organization. We fully expect it to help in the majority of games, but your opposition is not always guaranteed. I do think with the changes to the honor system the entire process will become a bit less stressful as far as winning/losing and the factors that contribute.

[Xanthippe]

Well, that should put an end to those 3 minute ABs and 5 minute AVs.

[Fordel]

Has anyone seen this yet? 

The next planned content patch will contain a matching system for the battlegrounds that will attempt to pair up groups based on various factors, including organization. We fully expect it to help in the majority of games, but your opposition is not always guaranteed. I do think with the changes to the honor system the entire process will become a bit less stressful as far as winning/losing and the factors that contribute.

I want this to work so much, but I have the feeling it is going to be as awesome as Meeting Stones.

[bhodi]

I want to stab whoever thought meeting stones was a useful, good idea in the face.

[Yoshimaru]

I want to stab whoever thought meeting stones was a useful, good idea in the face.

Same goes for global LFG chat.

[Engels]

Am I the only one that found the art in WoW, polished as it is, to be too cartoonish? Any number of reasons posted above are also the reasons I can't play WoW, but for me the greatest initial barrier was the childish art style. Don't get me wrong, I got over it, played for a few months, then quit for all the aformentioned reasons. But the cartoonish graphics are a big turn off for me.

[Yoshimaru]

I liked the graphics in that it allowed the game to be very smooth. Also, it enables casual gamers and new comers to play without a top gaming PC, which is another reason why WoW has been so succesfull.

[Xanthippe]

The cartoonyness bothered me at first, but I was over that in a few weeks.  I'd rather have a smooth game than a beautiful one with jerky motion - unless they make a game using the engine that built Oblivion.  I'd put up with a lot for that. 

[Numtini]

Same goes for global LFG chat.

I actually quit wow last time around because of the LFG channel. I was doing SM and needed groups, but it really wore down my interest in the game to listen to that idiocy day after day. I have no clue why they can't put in an LFG system like every other game on the planet.

WOW's a great polished game. I love the art.

For me it's great failing is it doesn't have enough socialization and grouping and the community is so immature and horrific that you wouldn't want to group with them anyway. Which for a social gamer like me is really bad.

I want to like WOW incredibly though. I find it very appealing, though some of that is probbaly that it's the big thing that all my friends (and everyone else) are playing. I keep resubbing, getting tired of it after a month or two, and drifting out.

Overall though, I think the concensus is that it's a pretty good game. The volume of people bitching about this or that in it has more to do with the volume of people playing it than anything else.

[Chenghiz]

Wow, lots of posts since I last looked at this thread.

I thought you and bhodi really enjoyed it? Both of you are some of the few here who actually raid, have large guilds, and have played longterm. Yet, you make it sound like you're only "kind of" having fun.

I'm having fun playing WOW until a better game comes along. There are obviously things WoW could do better, and there are things that a game could do that would make me want to play it more than WoW. So yeah, WoW is fun, but it's not my Robot Jesus, and there's nothing keeping me from jumping ship for a better game.

[bhodi]

Same. I like to bitch about it, but my bitches are minor game-mechanics related gripes, not "I can't log in!" or "The game goes to 2fps when more than 5 people are around" gripes. It's not my robot jesus, and I play more for my guild community than for the greater mouthbreathing populace or the game itself. It's a good way to waste time, but I have absoloutely no ties to it. I'll jump ship when something better comes along. I've pre-ordered the expansion, obviously, but I've got my eye on Age of Conan and Pirates of the Burning Sea. We'll see this time next year.

[El Gallo]

I want to stab whoever thought meeting stones was a useful, good idea in the face.

Same goes for global LFG chat.

Unlike the retard rocks, global lfg chat is actually a non-insane idea that *could* be implemented well.

The problem is that it's the only global channel, so all the retardery moves there.  If WoW had a bunch of serverwide channels and cross-server channels (like EQ did FIVE FUCKING YEARS AGO), the global lfg channel would be much better.  As it is, it's a lot better than the stones.

They are supposedly adding a regular lfg system with the expansion.  I actually prefer a lfg channel(s), iff there were other global channels.

[Simond]

I want to stab whoever thought meeting stones was a useful, good idea in the face.

Same goes for global LFG chat.

At long bloody last.

[Merusk]

The only reason I can think they keep the meeting stones is they are some high-level Dev's baby and HE thinks they're just FANTASTIC, screw you non-believers.  I still remember all the various threads asking for the LFG system from EQ/ COH/ whatever and detailing them very well.  Why they went with the stones...  *shrug*.   Whatever the reason it's incredibly stupid, and they just keep making it worse, not better.

WoW's fun for me, and I can plan what I'm doing or get things done in the amount of free time I have available.  That's all that matters to me.  Kids keep you home a LOT - as some of you are beginning to find - so these 'social lives' you all have now.. feh.

Were I childless, single, or in a guild that didn't plan things, I could possibly understand some of the gripes.  As it is now, things are great.  :-D

Am I the only one that found the art in WoW, polished as it is, to be too cartoonish? Any number of reasons posted above are also the reasons I can't play WoW, but for me the greatest initial barrier was the childish art style. Don't get me wrong, I got over it, played for a few months, then quit for all the aformentioned reasons. But the cartoonish graphics are a big turn off for me.

You're not the only one, no.  Many folks have cited this before.  Personally, I love 'em as I've always been a fan of Blizzard's blocky modeling style.   I'm not a fan of 'realistic' models that have no life.  Would it be nice if we could get some of Blizzard's flair in high-polycount? Sure... but then if I really cared a lot about graphics over anything else I'd be in L2 as I think it's the most beautiful MMO out there right now.  Guild Wars is a close second.


Added:

Good lord that's an ugly interface window.  Hopefuly it's real and will be cleaned-up and not just someone's fake.

[Engels]

You guys are mixing up two things: The graphics engine, which in Wow's case is great, in fact, awsome, and the art used with that engine. I don't need a high poligon count.

With regards to the criticism that you'd rather have cartoonish and vibrant vs realistic and lifeless, I would agree, but those two need not be mutually exclusive, l don't think.

[Typhon]

At long bloody last.

I was about to post a self important suggestion about a plug-in that parsed the LFG channel and displayed a UI overtop of it when I saw that pic

what is it?!

[Kageru]

The meeting stones are social engineering I think, limiting the players ability to discriminate on who is in their groups. Of course it shows a massive disconnect in how much the players want precisely that.

There is an add-on LFG system, called "Call to Arms". I tried it, but on most servers there's not a critical mass using it. Even if it's a good solution it can't compete with the "official" solution that is a default on everyone's UI.

[El Gallo]

I think the Meeting Stones reflect Blizzard's hardon for "real" interface things.  Your keyring isn't like EQ's abstract ring, it's an actual, physical keyring.  Same with the mail and the auction system and the resurrection angels.  They don't want you to do anything with slash commands or pop windows or anything resembling them if at all possible.  It's still fucking retarded as hell, though.

Back in beta, they had EQ's old-style LFG tags, and took them out. 

[Xanthippe]

Back in beta, they had EQ's old-style LFG tags, and took them out. 

That's right, I knew they had some system, but couldn't remember exactly how it worked, just that I'd use "/who" to access it.  It worked great; I have no idea why they ditched the idea come retail.

[Numtini]

That's what I've always thought was the weird part about WOW. They do all these things right and then just some things are so obvious and they just can't manage to do them.

[Fabricated]

I have never understood the people who rag on WoW's graphic style and then play any of the other largely ass-ugly MMOGs on the market.  Only Guild Wars, CoH/V (the character models only), and Eve Online qualify as not being 5 years behind the times.

[stray]

There are too many games out there for that assessment to even fly. L2, EQ2, FFXI, DAoC, DDO, AC2, Auto Assault, RYL, Ryzom, MXO, Archlord, Uru, Silk Road, and whatever Korean games I've failed to mention are equivalent to the games above (in graphics terms, that is). In some cases, even better.

[edit] Just to be clear: I have nothing against WoW's graphics. I'm just replying to your particular comment.

I think WoW's spell effects kind of suck though. Even Shadowbane's were better.

[caladein]

Some of those games are outright terrible, and at least in the case of MxO, would run like absolute ass (although that wasn't a graphics issue as much as other things).

That said, I prefer WoW's style to a few other games (especially with WoW's female characters being decent compared to MxO's techno-hookers).

[stray]

The truth is, almost all MMO's are using 5 year old graphics technology. Even the Unreal engine, which L2 uses, is getting old. EQ2 is probably the only thing that could qualify as "new".

Uru might be 3 or 4 years old. Either way, I think it's the best looking MMO. It's a great combination between realism, stability, and style.

Ryzom, like WoW, doesn't have a great engine, but it's got a lot of charm, I think. Kind of falls in the same category as WoW.

[Fabricated]

There are too many games out there for that assessment to even fly. L2, EQ2, FFXI, DAoC, DDO, AC2, Auto Assault, RYL, Ryzom, MXO, Archlord, Uru, Silk Road, and whatever Korean games I've failed to mention are equivalent to the games above (in graphics terms, that is). In some cases, even better.

[edit] Just to be clear: I have nothing against WoW's graphics. I'm just replying to your particular comment.

I think WoW's spell effects kind of suck though. Even Shadowbane's were better.

Dude, EQ2, DAoC, AC2, and all of the L2 knockoffs look like shit on a stick.

FF11 has some artistic flair in character models and some set locations but it's hard to even look at in some areas.

The rest I haven't really played.