PvP

[Dren]

Ok, I've spent nearly 3 years playing this game without even touching the PvP.  Yes, I'm on a normal server.  Ok, I did try the BG's when they were first introduced, but after seeing the queue wait times I never looked back.  It was so bad that I didn't even think to try after they invented the battle groups.

So, I join my guild in one of their premade rounds of BG's Friday just on a Lark and had nothing better to do.

I don't know what the hell I was thinking.  I should have done this a long long time ago.  I loved it.

Now I can't get enough.  I have 4 lvl 70's that I now want fully outfitted in PvP gear.

I have a lot of work/fun to do.  Although, now that I've been doing mostly PUG's, I'm really missing the premade night.  5x more fun and 10x more effective.  You can really really tell if you have two PUGs, or two premades, or a lop-sided battle.

I'm getting to find the guys that sit and bitch during the battle about how bad we are funny.  I guess it never dawns on them that just perhaps the other side are all on voice/chat?

Sorry for the new thread.  I just had to share my epiphany.

*Edit:  Of course after I posted this I finally noticed the other thread on BG's.  My bad.  Merge if you want.

[Arrrgh]

If you're enjoying it try to get on an arena team, or start a new arena team with another newb or two. Even the low score newb vs newb level teams make a couple of hundred points a week. It adds up and you can get a few S2/S3 pieces and save yourself some honor grinding.

[Xanthippe]

Yes, and it's always "U guys suk!" - it's never "we suck."

I hate arena fighting because it's so artificial, but it's an excellent way to get gear.

I really wish Blizzard would put far less into junk like Sunwell, that many players won't ever see, and put in more different kinds of battlegrounds, or even just more pve content available to people of limited time.  Battlegrounds are perfect for people who want to play an hour or two at a time.

[Dren]

If you're enjoying it try to get on an arena team, or start a new arena team with another newb or two. Even the low score newb vs newb level teams make a couple of hundred points a week. It adds up and you can get a few S2/S3 pieces and save yourself some honor grinding.

Yep, trying to do that now with my guild.  Trouble is most are in groups that are quite active now.  Going to be hard to break in on those groups I think.  We'll see.

Right now it isn't a grind for me to do BG's since it is all new.  I'm enjoying it.  It really helps that it fits into my playstyle which is short periods of playtime (15 minutes or so.)  Hell, some matches are over (for good or bad) in less than 5 minutes!  The longest I've waited for a match is maybe 1 minute.  So far, it has been perfect for me except for some of the crappy PUG's I've been in.

I think it really comes down to whether you just have bad luck and get put into a group that is just as new and itemless as me!  Although, I read through those summaries at the end of matches and find that many people just don't try very hard.  I mean, if my paladin is not only able to out heal other healers, out damage rogues, and get more kills than anybody....something is wrong.  Especially that damage part.  I'm a healadin!  My damage is all from 40 hp hammer strikes, consecration, and my judgements basically.  WTF?

[Merusk]

 I mean, if my paladin is not only able to out heal other healers, out damage rogues, and get more kills than anybody....something is wrong.  Especially that damage part.  I'm a healadin!  My damage is all from 40 hp hammer strikes, consecration, and my judgements basically.  WTF?

I get that a lot on my pally when healadin specced, too.  Thing is, if you're at a heavily-defended node (on attk or def.) AND you're sitting at the flag tossing out conc, you're racking up a lot of damage.  It's got no limit to the # of people you can hit with it, and check out your +spelldam since the equipment changes.  At 1508+ healing in my PVP gear, I've got +452 spelldamage; nothing to sneeze at for bonus damage when you're also healing like a fiend.  I think Conc also gets the full bonus of the +dam, since it's a DoT.   Fucking nice damage for a spell you only have to toss out every 10 seconds or so.

[Dren]

Yeah, in my full healing gear (PvE since I haven't built up my PvP gear at all yet,) I have 1705 healing and nearly 800 damage (mainly Kara dropped lewtz.)  It must have been conc. rakcing up the damage for me.  Yes, I would basically position myself at every big fight to lend the damage from conc and my heals for obvious reasons.

I was worried at first about mana conservation, but quickly realized that if you are sitting there fighting for more than 3-4 minutes at the flag, things are going to well.  I got a lot better results from going out like a flame rather than sitting there doing nothing.  Cap the node and you res right there anyway, so it pays to go all out I think.  Plus, it is a lot more fun.

Yes, I do heal and heal a lot!  I seriously love watching the enemy get extremely pissed off at me for screwing up their ganking.  I usually turn into target #1 about mid-way through the battle, especially against teams using voice.  Those guys target me almost right away.

[MrHat]

Bah, making me want to roll a paladin but I might kill myself if I have to level all the way from 1 again.

[Nebu]

I'm having a hard time really appreciating pvp in this game after having played DAoC for 5+ years.  The amount of difference that gear makes necessitates farming to a ridiculous degree.  I mean if two people are comparable in ability, the one with the better gear has a HUGE advantage.  While an advantage also existed in DAoC, it was still pretty small.  I think this and all of the gray gankers has really decreased my desire to play.  It's discouraging to outplay someone in a pvp situation and still get crushed by their gear. 

[murdoc]

I'm having a hard time really appreciating pvp in this game after having played DAoC for 5+ years.  The amount of difference that gear makes necessitates farming to a ridiculous degree.  I mean if two people are comparable in ability, the one with the better gear has a HUGE advantage.  While an advantage also existed in DAoC, it was still pretty small.  I think this and all of the gray gankers has really decreased my desire to play.  It's discouraging to outplay someone in a pvp situation and still get crushed by their gear. 

At least (I haven't run into them anyways) there's no buffbots in WoW 

I love when I get told that I play a rogue in the BG really well... because I don't. I spam hemo, hit kidney shot every now and then, then I move to the next target. It's not even all about the gear, it's about the enchants on that gear.

[Dren]

Gear dependancy really depends on the class too, I think.  I noticed a huge issue with my Warlock for instance.  I kept seeing Warlocks owning in the BG and then I took mine in with pretty good gear, but nothing on the level for PvP.  Holy crap did I get owned over and over.  The lack of armor and stamina was very apparent.

Basically it came down to rogues and druids sitting invis waiting for me to come close enough to the flags.  Then they'd stun lock me and tear my cloth self up before I could even think about popping fear.  I think my spec is warped at the moment, so I'll fix that.  Plus, I should have had that demon out that senses hidden and kills spells.  That would have probably helped.

Both my Paladin and Priest did quite well for how lacking I am for gear.  My paladin does the best, but has the best gear too.

I haven't tried my rogue yet.  He has great daggers, but nothing for armor.  It should be interesting.

As for getting discouraged due to lack of gear:  I'm finding I'm just getting too old to get upset about losses.  Dieing really doesn't have a concequence, so that is good.  I'm on Alliance, so losing battles is old hat at this point.  I'm numb to that.  I really look at it as an exciting way of passing the time and slowly build up to get more lewtz.  It sure as hell beats farming any day of the week!

The only thing I find amusing is that you have to basically degrade yourself when first starting out because you don't have the gear.  You don't do better (besides basic player skill) until you lose enough to get the gear you need.  Then you get to own the newbs like you were owned...  It is almost like Fraternity hazing. 

It be nice if they made tiers in the BG's where you didn't advance to the next tier until you have more points/gear.  That way, you'd have more fights with even odds?  There are a lot of issues with that though, including the problem of playing with friends when they are at different tiers, etc.  I guess the hazing isn't THAT bad.

I did two night of hardcore PvP with my Pally and have nearly 10,000 honor points about 20 EoTS badges.  I should be able to get my first piece soon.  I wouldn't say that's a huge hurdle to overcome.

[hal]

Just to be contrary. My blood elf lock did her succy quest this last weekend and was required to kill a npc in the wetlands. The feeling running through those high level  (to me) zones was quite different that my human lock going to the barrens on a PvE server.

[Dren]

Just to be contrary. My blood elf lock did her succy quest this last weekend and was required to kill a npc in the wetlands. The feeling running through those high level  (to me) zones was quite different that my human lock going to the barrens on a PvE server.

Contrary to what?   I agree with what you said, but it doesn't look like it has anything to do with what I said.

[Soukyan]

I think the overall feeling on a PvP server is more tense, at least in the contested zones. It reminds me of the days when I played DAoC and was running around the frontiers, or even more like Darkness Falls. Not only was it an awesome dungeon, but was shared by all three realms. It made for some fun encounters when fighting mobs and encountering enemy realms. Good good fun. I have not had the opportunity to try WoW PvP, so I don't know what survivability is like comparatively, but in DAoC, most classes were fairly durable in combat so you could have some fun before dropping dead. One and two shot deaths are never fun and tend to drive me away from the PvP game rather than propel me to do more.

[MrHat]

I think the overall feeling on a PvP server is more tense, at least in the contested zones. It reminds me of the days when I played DAoC and was running around the frontiers, or even more like Darkness Falls. Not only was it an awesome dungeon, but was shared by all three realms. It made for some fun encounters when fighting mobs and encountering enemy realms. Good good fun. I have not had the opportunity to try WoW PvP, so I don't know what survivability is like comparatively, but in DAoC, most classes were fairly durable in combat so you could have some fun before dropping dead. One and two shot deaths are never fun and tend to drive me away from the PvP game rather than propel me to do more.

Similar levels (1-3 difference) can be fought with fun.  More than that, coupled with waiting until you are fighting a mob, make for not so much fun.

I started playing again on my rogue (L67) and was killing in outland.  I had several similar levels not even attack me.  I was like, wtf man.  So I killed them.

THIS.IS.OUTLAAAAND.

[Kail]

Personally, I am not liking the world PvP much at all.  There have been a few fun fights (and by fun, I mean not infuriatingly unbalanced, not "this is awesome" fun), but they are outnumbered about 10:1 by "Dwarf riding past on horse decides to one-shot me" kind of crap.  On the up side, I do think it's helped me get a lot better at 1v1 PvP, but on the downside, it's killing my faith in humanity.

Battlegrounds PvP I am enjoying, though.  I wouldn't mind trying out the Arena if I ever get to that level.  It's also becoming apparent to me that things like "BG PvP" are very different, in terms of gameplay and skill, than things like "World PvP".

[Soukyan]

Personally, I am not liking the world PvP much at all.  There have been a few fun fights (and by fun, I mean not infuriatingly unbalanced, not "this is awesome" fun), but they are outnumbered about 10:1 by "Dwarf riding past on horse decides to one-shot me" kind of crap.  On the up side, I do think it's helped me get a lot better at 1v1 PvP, but on the downside, it's killing my faith in humanity.

Battlegrounds PvP I am enjoying, though.  I wouldn't mind trying out the Arena if I ever get to that level.  It's also becoming apparent to me that things like "BG PvP" are very different, in terms of gameplay and skill, than things like "World PvP".

And therein lies the reason that BG RvR was so successful in DAoC. Some may have disliked the fact that it was contrived, but some of us appreciated the fact that there was a level range within the instance that allowed for fun fights, avoidance of grief, and a chance to try out new classes in RvR before grinding to max level.

[Dren]

I completely recognize the thrill factor that comes with a PvP server.  It is much the same as the feeling I got from UO in the early days.  I enjoy it in small doses though, not all the time.  That attitude has gotten moreso as I've gotten older too.  I really cherish the ability to choose when I PvP and when I just brainlessly solo and ignore the world around me.

Playing BG's on a normal server suits my playstyle these days just right.  Do I miss out on those days of fearing a death that has consequences (time away from questing, etc.?)  Sure, but the thrill I got from being successfull typically is uneven with losses.  I get 1-2 hours per play session and I really don't want to have somebody else block me from it unless I specifically allow it (BG's.) 

Even with the gear imbalance in BG's,  you can still serve a role.  I can definitely serve a role as a healer.  I just have to keep it on the down low or I become target number 1 everytime.  With other roles, wars always need the infantry to keep the enemy busy and distracted from the real goals.  I'm doing that right now while learning the ropes of PvP in WoW.

For instance, I have GOT to find a way to counter spell-steal.  I am soooo sick of dieing to that dumb spell or those like it.

[Ironwood]

Um.  What are they stealing ?

[Arrrgh]

You're probably thinking counter spell. Since everything a healadin does is holy once you get hit with counter spell and it blocks the casting of holy spells you're bricked till it wears off.

[Xanthippe]

Ganked my first rogue last night as a stealthy druid.  He was my level.  Of course I waited until he pulled a mob. 

(Some people call that dirty pvp.  I don't understand how that's dirty pvp, since he has stuns and I don't.)

Can't count the number of times rogues have ganked me on various toons.  I really hate getting cheatshotted off my mount.

[Nebu]

(Some people call that dirty pvp.  I don't understand how that's dirty pvp, since he has stuns and I don't.)

Do you enjoy it when people hit you while fighting a mob?  The answer to that may address your question. 

[Der Helm]

(Some people call that dirty pvp.  I don't understand how that's dirty pvp, since he has stuns and I don't.)

Do you enjoy it when people hit you while fighting a mob?  The answer to that may address your question. 

This strategy has been proved to be usefull

It's what I use.

Most of the time ...

 

[Nebu]

I tend to live more by the quote:

An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

It's a game.  Do what you like. 

[murdoc]

It's a right of passage to get ganked while fighting a mob. It happens to you as you level, in turn when you get the chance it's in the PvP server creed to make others suffer as well.

For me it depends on what level and what class I came across. Warlocks, Hunters and anything that's a Night Elf is KOS... or attemp to at least. I generally don't wait for them to pull a mob though, I just attack ASAP.

[Dren]

You're probably thinking counter spell. Since everything a healadin does is holy once you get hit with counter spell and it blocks the casting of holy spells you're bricked till it wears off.

YES, that is it.  The time I'm away from my spells is just long enough for a mage to take me from full health to dead while I can do nothing about it.  EVERYTHING I have other than whacking them with my mace that does around 45 hp damage per hit is dead to me during that time.  Even my ranged stun won't work.  Even my bubble, my lovely lovely bubble.

Nearly everyone has something like this.  Shaman = Earth Shock.  Mage = counter spell.  Warlock = demon dog ability.  Warrior = shield bash.  Rogues = Kick.  

There must be an add-on out there that immediately targets me when I start to heal or something.  Nearly 75% of the time in any BG fight, as soon as I start to cast somebody hits me with one of those and I just have to either sit there and wait it out or get pummelled to death.  I don't ever seem to resist it either.  There must be a way to at least make so 1/2 the time I can actually do something.  Other than gear, I haven't figured it out.

[Simond]

Rock: "Scissors are fine, nerf paper". 

[Jayce]

I tend to not be able to kill anyone in the 6 seconds (I think it is) that Counterspell is active     

The interesting thing about CS is that you have to catch the person casting to get the primary effect (though there is a shorter, complete silence effect if they have the improved version).  One thing you can do if you have a mage in the area you think might try it is to either a) use Flash of Light instead of holy light for the shorter cast time, and thus smaller window for them to target, or b) start casting holy light and cancelling it at random.  If you're lucky they will hit you after you've cancelled the spell and they waste it.

[Dren]

I tend to not be able to kill anyone in the 6 seconds (I think it is) that Counterspell is active     

The interesting thing about CS is that you have to catch the person casting to get the primary effect (though there is a shorter, complete silence effect if they have the improved version).  One thing you can do if you have a mage in the area you think might try it is to either a) use Flash of Light instead of holy light for the shorter cast time, and thus smaller window for them to target, or b) start casting holy light and cancelling it at random.  If you're lucky they will hit you after you've cancelled the spell and they waste it.

That is why I said they must have an add-on that helps them because I tested this.  I kept running over to the same mage over and over trying to figure this out last night.  Each time the same thing would happen, no matter how I did it.  I'd start to attack (pathetic  DPS and all) and she would start casting on me (Ice Mage.)  I would start using flash heal (my heals are pretty big now at about 1300-1400 per on flash, so it works well to stay alive.)  She would instantly stop casting whatever she had going and counterspell me.  There is no casting time to it, so I can't see it and stop casting other than from luck.

The only thing I figured out was to start healing myself right at the beginning.  That actually tricked her or her add-on instantly kicked in and she counter spelled me.  She could only get me down to 1/4 health before it wore off and I fully healed with a full heal.  Then I did ok, except I do not have enough DPS to even take out a mage before help arrives and takes me out anyway.

I'm fine with not having DPS.  I can't really kill anybody without help in a time frame that means anything in BG's.  I'm fine with that.  I've given that up to be a healer.  There is no way I can play those kinds of games when I'm in a group fight at a flag to try and avoid being a useless lump for 8 seconds or more depending on how many people are in line to counterspell me.

I constantly hear bitching about no healing in BG's, but I can tell you from experience that it isn't because people don't want to.  It is because most of the time, they can't, so why spec it?  I'll perservere though.  I'm still liking it and will find a solution at some point.  I'm just thinking it will be all about getting my resilience up so I can at least have a chance of resisting couterspell attacks part of the time.

Current Resilience? = Zippo.

[Merusk]

I tend to live more by the quote:

An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

It's a game.  Do what you like. 

They've completly broken you, haven't they Neb?   

Well, WAR is due out this year (maybe...) perhaps that'll go better.

[Der Helm]

It's a game.  Do what you like. 

My point was (and I hope the article stated that) that I (almost) never kill a lowbie alliance player unprovoked. If his friends try to gank me, it's open season.

BUT I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE ON SOUTHSHORE !!!

[Xanthippe]

(Some people call that dirty pvp.  I don't understand how that's dirty pvp, since he has stuns and I don't.)

Do you enjoy it when people hit you while fighting a mob?  The answer to that may address your question. 

The guy was a rogue.  I don't think I've ever been killed by a rogue when I was expecting to be.  That's what rogues do.  They pop up on you unexpectedly, and frequently keep you stunned until they kill you.  That's the whole stealth/stun thing.

If it bothered me that people hit me while fighting a mob, I'd be back on the server I started on and spent only 2 months on, a pve server.  But I was so bored on that server because of the entirely weird "opt in/opt out" form of pvp that I almost quit playing entirely.  Then I moved to a pvp server and never looked back.

[stu]

As a rogue, I follow players around until they inevitably try to gank someone. That's when I strike!

So good. So deadly.  :)



(and very satisfying)

[Xanthippe]

I tend to live more by the quote:

An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind.

It's a game.  Do what you like. 

You know, Gandhi gets a fuckload of credit for the civility of the British.  Imagine what would have happened had he been facing someone less polite. 

Probably wouldn't have even heard of him, in fact, were that the case.

[Jayce]

Every time I get jumped while fighting a mob by someone higher level when I'm already at half life, I swear that there is no more mercy, I'm just going to gank every person I come across at their point of highest vulnerability.

Then I get the chance and I just don't have the heart.  I'm a natural born sheep I guess.

[Nebu]

Then I get the chance and I just don't have the heart.  I'm a natural born sheep I guess.

That's exactly it for me.  I used to gank people without mercy in UO and DAoC until I saw something.  I watched my daughter playing Runescape and someone killed her in a bad spot.  She cried.  I mean, she really took it personally and cried.  My fun in a game just isn't worth having that kind of effect on someone else.  I think that my days on pvp servers are about done.  I just don't have the heart to ruin the fun of others anymore.