So, is it fun or just shiny and new?

[Threash]

Even weeding out stuff that was less than ideal my assassin has 2 and a half bars of abilities i use constantly at 36.

[Draegan]

The higher up in levels the less abilities you use due to your talents weeding out some.  I'm sure you're doing something wrong, or using abilities for the sake of using them.

I mean as a BH Merc, single target DPS is essentially 3-4 different abilities, with a few utilities on 1m+ cooldowns.  It's the same with a lot of classes.  Then when we have AOE it's another 3 or 4 abilities but they rarely mix with each other.

[kildorn]

I frequently use my two bars of shit on my scoundrel, with one extra bar of situational cooldowns (spacevanish, spaceevasion, spaceholyshitabossfight). But that may be due to having my DPS abilities, my AE abilities, and my healing abilities to deal with. As well as lacking a stealth bar system for my two constantly used but only from stealth abilities.

[Sky]

I'm generally opening with DFA if it's up, or explosive dart if it's not. Sometimes I just jet charge in and flame sweep.

But normal rotation is just rocket punch>rail shot>explosive dart>>flamethrower>flameburst/rapidshot (depending on heat, at least a few to debuff). Even with groups, I'm just changing out flame burst for flame sweep to hold aggro and prioritizing flamethrower a bit more if things line up.

[sam, an eggplant]

The problem is "coming soon' in MMO's means 1month - Infinity.  I could be 5 years before the UI gets updated.

In most MMOs, yeah. Trion has proven quite agile with Rift, although it won't save them in the end.

[El Gallo]

 I'm sure you're doing something wrong, or using abilities for the sake of using them.

I'm sure he's right, because I have the same experience as him with the republic version of the class, as do lots of other people.  The class has a lot of abilities that you only use to set up other abilities (the debilitate + super damage to debilitated opponents abilities come to mind) and several that you only use when certain procs go up. Multiple stuns/cc/interrupts (used all the time even in solo pve to set up backstabs) and various stealth skills.  I use 2 full bars (~ through 5, with alt, ctrl-alt, and ctrl-alt-shift modifiers, the latter two via mouse buttons) and still click the sidebar for stuff like healpacks and taunts (to save companions, if I've respeced to tank I'll obviously move those to my main bars).  Doable, but could definitely use some pruning. 

[Threash]

Yeah pretty much that.  I listed every ability i use on the assassin thread, i already pruned the less than ideal ones like i said, none of the ones i have i can do without.

[rattran]

All my abilities, and I don't have a single interrupt. This is becoming a problem with champions and other boss types, as even elites seem to be becoming immune to electro-dart and knockback. If the eventual fate of bodyguard Merc to be a heal-bitch?

2 crosshealing mobs I just run away from now.

[Azuredream]

Mercenaries don't get an interrupt? That's pretty lame.

On topic; it's definitely hitting fun chords for me, I find myself catching alt-itis even though I never usually contract that disease.

[kildorn]

All my abilities, and I don't have a single interrupt. This is becoming a problem with champions and other boss types, as even elites seem to be becoming immune to electro-dart and knockback. If the eventual fate of bodyguard Merc to be a heal-bitch?

2 crosshealing mobs I just run away from now.

That sounds unfun. Gunslingers have the same issue (scoundrels get an interrupt, gunslingers get another damage button), which seems silly.

Thankfully I didn't run into many stun immune elites on my leveling spree, but I did have a number of fights where I'd have cried myself to sleep if I couldn't interrupt even some of the shit they have. Freaking Sorc mobs man, freaking sorcs.

[Zetor]

My favorite 'lol, interrupts' encounter so far was two silver elites in the last trooper act 3 mission. Both of them spammed their heal as soon as they could, and recast it immediately after you interrupted them... and as a tank I didn't have CC - or the dps to just burst one of them down. I eventually won by getting them both to 70% hp through area damage, then chaining all of my interrupts and stuns (+ Elara's pseudo-cc) together while swapping back and forth, giving me a 5-second window to gank one of them quick... was probably one of the more interesting solo fights as a tank.

[Paroid]

That sounds unfun. Gunslingers have the same issue (scoundrels get an interrupt, gunslingers get another damage button), which seems silly.

Gunslingers have an interrupt, it's called Distraction (Level 18)

http://www.torhead.com/ability/8KL54XT

They have other problems though, in my experience my IA Sniper is slightly less tough than a sodden tissue.

[Sjofn]

Fuck, yes, my gunslinger dies a lot.

[Nebu]

Fuck, yes, my gunslinger dies a lot.

If gunslinger is the sniper mirror, I feel your pain.  I died a lot too, particularly to pairs of strong mobs or melee elites.  Things got much better in my 40's when my class quest gave me a healer companion.

[sam, an eggplant]

Pairs of strongs and single elite encounters are tough on my tank BH with a healing companion, if I don't use any of my cooldowns. Those are just tough fights, period.

[Ingmar]

When I hit those solo with my Jedi guardian + healer I don't have a tremendous amount of trouble, but I have been pretty obsessive about making sure my armoring mods are always the best ones I can use (I'm a cybertech and have oranges in most slots now.)

Before I got the healer though, yeah, rough.

[Reg]

Elites can be tough if I don't outlevel them by a level or two.  The Sand Demon on Tattooine was the first time I had to send Vette back to the ship and bring Quinn on board for his healing.  That's been the only fight I've needed him for so far though, thank God.  Without Vette's DPS contributions fights take freaking forever.  My Juggernaut seriously needs to think about dumping the Immortal spec for DPS.  It's not like there's a shortage of tanks.

edit: grammar

[Zetor]

I agree with sam -- double strongs were probably the hardest for me as a tank-spec vanguard due to lack of CC and burst. Unlesss I focused and burst one down while staggering my stuns, they COULD kill me through Elara healing and my tanking cooldowns. It became a lot easier after I got the pve-only "I will hit you really hard every 45 seconds if you are stunned" ability, but getting a strong add in a pull with another strong + some half-dead mooks could end badly depending on their abilities.

Single elites and even champions (!) were not a problem, since I could just interrupt their big ability / heal, and whittle them down. There was one mission on Corellia where I had to solo TWO elites with a 20-second headstart (they were stunned for 20 sec, then woke up). Since vanguard burst doesn't really exist, I could only bring one of them to 20%ish by the time they woke up, and then it was a frantic cooldown fest to burn one and LOS the other long enough for Elara to heal me back up. Thankfully that fight had some gimmicks that I could abuse, along with plenty of LOS opportunities...

[luckton]

http://r2-db.com/article-rss/21915/quesh-difficulty-needs-examined

A few general notes on challenging fights.

One of the most important aspects of higher level fights against elites is to counter their special abilities. You are required to use your interrupting abilities (e.g. Distraction on the Imperial Agent) in these fights to prevent these enemies from gaining the upper hand. In the short term, stuns and ballistic attacks/knockback will also help, but your interrupt abilities have the added benefit of preventing the target from using their special abilities.

Make sure your companion is properly equipped and that their signature abilities are enabled. For example, if you rely on your companion to take the brunt of the beating in a fight, make sure their 'defensive stance' is activated. Turn off their area of effect abilities when you're fighting single enemies - they are not efficient for these fights. You can enable/disable abilities by opening your companion panel (~ by default) and right clicking the ability. The green indicator on an ability tells you if a companion will consider the ability for use in their AI rotation.

Do not underestimate the benefit of stims and relics as short term efforts to turn the tide. Same goes for your 20 minute 'heroic moment' ability (the one that only works with your companion and triggers the music).

This sounds obvious, but make sure that your skill points (k) are distributed and that you've trained primary your abilities to level.

Finally, if all else fails, gaining additional equipment, levels or bringing a friend along to help with a challenging fight can be used to overcome temporary blocks. However, be advised that if you run into constantly very challenging fights, it is a good indication that your equipment might need updating.

All these notes aside, we are looking at difficulty issues constantly. If we find a trend that indicate a certain fight is broken or a specific advanced class has issues, we will act accordingly. If you want to provide additional insights, such as your character's spec, your approach to combat, your companion or a particular fight you would like us to look at, please feel free to do so in this thread.

regards
George

This article is originally from: www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=897709#edit897709

[Sjofn]

Fuck, yes, my gunslinger dies a lot.

If gunslinger is the sniper mirror, I feel your pain.  I died a lot too, particularly to pairs of strong mobs or melee elites.  Things got much better in my 40's when my class quest gave me a healer companion.

It is indeed the mirror, and it has convinced me to make sure my IA is an operative, even though I think meleeing on that class is stupid. Gunslingers get their healer really late as well, I think it's their fifth companion. Bleh!


That's probably my biggest complaint about the companions, actually, the rate you get them and the order you get them varies wildly between classes, and some classes, in my opinion, are totally fucked by this. The jedi knights should not have to wait as long as they do for a healer, the sith assassins definitely should not have to wait for as long as THEY do for a healer, etc. Basically if a class can tank, I feel like the healer should be the first or second companion, the end. Healer specs can manage with basically anyone from what I've seen so far, but a tank with no healer is just sort of depressing. And the rate of getting them could stand to be more even, it feels like a thousand years before you get your second person for a lot of classes, and that's kinda lame, especially if you don't especially like your first companion.

[sam, an eggplant]

It became a lot easier after I got the pve-only "I will hit you really hard every 45 seconds if you are stunned" ability,

Is that right? Since it does less damage against strongs, doesn't work at all against elites, and only works on stunned enemies, I figured it was a PvP ability and didn't even bother putting it on my bars. Does it really work so well against strongs that it's worth hotkeying to use after my 1 minute cooldown stun?

[Threash]

The assassin version did not even work at all in pvp.

[Zetor]

It became a lot easier after I got the pve-only "I will hit you really hard every 45 seconds if you are stunned" ability,

Is that right? Since it does less damage against strongs, doesn't work at all against elites, and only works on stunned enemies, I figured it was a PvP ability and didn't even bother putting it on my bars. Does it really work so well against strongs that it's worth hotkeying to use after my 1 minute cooldown stun?

Well, it's one of the two abilities that hits above 1k reliably for me, so I used it for the burst. It DOES do (slightly) less damage against strongs, but it's still worthwhile to use; plus, it's free! It doesn't work against elites and pvp, (un)fortunately. If it worked against elites, it would be a decent pve instance ability to hit a CC'd target and get a large chunk of threat right away, but alas.

Edit: I used it more after I got my AOE 2.5 second stun at level 46... since I was using those to slow down incoming damage / AOE interrupt stuff, it was nice to gain a chunk of free damage afterward.

[Merusk]

http://r2-db.com/article-rss/21915/quesh-difficulty-needs-examined

Do not underestimate the benefit of stims and relics as short term efforts to turn the tide. Same goes for your 20 minute 'heroic moment' ability (the one that only works with your companion and triggers the music).

I don't know about other classes, but the BH "Heroic Moment" ability is stupidly useless and doesn't help in the fights being discussed.  It resets electro dart and heals you 2% every 3s for 1 min.  Sure, a nice heal but you also have Kolto Overload which does more healing over less time and doesn't keep you up vs 2 strong DPSers beating on your ass, even if Mako is doing her damnest to heal you.   Less healing over a longer time isn't going to help either.

[Ingmar]

Any reason you can't stack them though?

[Zetor]

Every class gets the same ability (slow hp regen for 1 min + reset on your stun). I used that ability very rarely, usually just to get a second stun off on a strong enemy in an emergency or if I was completely out of interrupts and that ability had to be interrupted *right now*. The slow regen actually saved me once on a very tough pull that I survived with about 30 hp and my healing companion dead.

[Merusk]

Any reason you can't stack them though?

You can, but fighting 3 strongs as a tank takes a hell of a lot longer than 15s.   Fighting the Republic adrenal troops on Quesh,  Strong mobs singly I'd find myself down around 20-25% health after every fight as it was.  Two or - in some cases - 3 and one of them a healer?  You're fucked.   I just waited on respawns.

It makes sense from a story perspective - after all tehy're all hopped-up on 'non-addictive stims' ( ) - but from a playability perspective I decided to just do my class quest then fuck off to do bonus stuff on another planet until I'm 37 instead.

[Ingmar]

Every class gets the same ability (slow hp regen for 1 min + reset on your stun). I used that ability very rarely, usually just to get a second stun off on a strong enemy in an emergency or if I was completely out of interrupts and that ability had to be interrupted *right now*. The slow regen actually saved me once on a very tough pull that I survived with about 30 hp and my healing companion dead.

Mine doesn't reset my stun, it resets one of my tanking cooldowns. It is really very handy.

[eldaec]

Basically if a class can tank, I feel like the healer should be the first or second companion, the end.

I think the bigger issue is how damn long it takes to get any of your companions.

All five should be available by tatooine or maybe alderaan.

[Sjofn]

That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs.



EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me.

[tmp]

EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me.

I imagine he may be your punishment for not minding Carth?

[CmdrSlack]

That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs.



EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me.

I see the name Riggs and I am forced to wonder whether he says, "I'm getting too old for this."

[Sjofn]

EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me.

I imagine he may be your punishment for not minding Carth?

Well, it's not like I liked Carth. But yeah, it feels like Bioware went "Sjofn tolerated Carth, we can do better than that. We can make a character she hates, dammit!"

[Ingmar]

I blame the fact that their writers were subjected to being around Texans.

[Der Helm]

That would work too, I do think it's silly that I'm level 40 and I still have two more companions to get. But I think it would bug me less if my early companions were most useful to me. And also if they were not Corso Riggs.



EDIT: I just realized! Corso Riggs is SWTOR's Kerry Collins for me.

I see the name Riggs and I am forced to wonder whether he says, "I'm getting too old for this."

That would be Murtaugh.