War

[Sir T]

I think what it shows is something new. Up till now, Alliances could throw everything into a war as they could count on the utter drudgery of POS warfare to keep them safe. NOW it seems they have to think about defense more. They strip their territory of players and, if people arn't scared of them, they start getting invaded left and right. People cant count on their internet propaganda anymore to stop people, and if they cant count on that they cant strip their alliance territory in huge blob attacks.

An interesting development.

[Endie]

Well, I suppose forcing space-holding) alliances to focus on close to home was what CCP said they wanted.

[MahrinSkel]

We may wind up with "Turtling" ala 2004, pre-POS warfare.  If manpower is your only effective defense, you don't want to squander it on offensive operations (unless you're currently spaceless, with nothing to defend).

--Dave

[Sir T]

FRESH FROM INTERSTELLAR CORRESPONDENTS

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3657&tid=7

breaking news: battle raging in goonswarm claimed 49-u6u system reported by ISD Magnus Balteus | 2010.01.10 05:53:27 | NEW

49-U6U, Querious - Over 547 ships have been lost in the last 24 hours and 216 of those in the last hour alone as GoonSwarm repels a Systematic-Chaos and Against ALL Authorities invasion of this GoonSwarm held system. SBUs have been deployed and battles are raging around them.

Hratli Smirks of GoonSwarm explains what he believes to be the reason for the attack in 49-U6U: "Are you aware of Liam Fremen? He runs Sys-K. He has a huge [expletive deleted] for us literally...and he decided to invade us. Mostly to help out Molle, on account of he has this [affection for] Molle (he runs IT alliance)... Also, 49-U is the border to AAA space and that's basically as much effort as you can expect from AAA [and] allies"

Although Goons appear to be holding onto the system, Hratli reports that "AAA renter" Ushra'Khan has killed 78 GoonSwarm carriers. What impact those losses will have on the ongoing defense of the system remains to be seen.

A representative from Systematic-Chaos was contacted but leadership declined to comment while the operation was still ongoing.

Details will be reported as more information becomes available.

 

[Endie]

Since this is a no-trolling thread it should be pointed out that the ISD correspondent is dumb and fell for that there "does he know anything about 0.0 or does he just parrot what he is told?" trap.  All 78 of those carriers are safely in their owmsrs' hangars.

As regards the 49- fight last night it was narrowly lost, but I'm a lot more sanguine now about what will happen in the upcoming weekday fights. It was a near-run thing despite the historic inability of GS to match enemies on Friday and Saturday nights and the odds against our enemies keeping this up for three more timers On euro work nights and us prime are sizable.

In other news CCP seem to be absolutely unbelievable idiots over not handing back a station lost purely because of bugged mechanics in geminate, tri finally took the P2 station from the other half of the north (who need to learn how to focus on one campaign at a time), and if bu jinkan didn't troll me then PL are en route for Jita, which would leave GS rather exposed.   

[Sir T]

Yeah to clarify it was referencing a rather silly and inacurate  post made on SHC (I think) during the battle by a rather less than straightforward Uhsra'khan member...

Local down to 790. Goons were mostly killed or inside their POS shields. We got a couple carriers I think and a bunch of BS/Support.

Once this was reported in local in 49-, the Goonswarm members felt it their duty to roleplay losing their carriers every 5 seconds. 

In all seriousness it was a really hard fight and went on for several hours with us badly outnumbered. Outnumbered to a very surprising degree for the timezone it has to be said, but it was a weekend I guess. They finally got the hub reinforced around 5:00 and immediately went to their towers and logged with hardly any smack from them in local. Strategic victory for them.

The station comes out tonight.

[Slayerik]

Let's add 20 to the D.

[setar]

Still think we are doing this wrong. It's almost impossible to take an actively defended station, and the final station timer will probably see to this. Dominion expects you to take stations after the enemy has been defeated. Set up camp in his territory, secure the area, roam. Once coordinated defenses collapse go for the stations and Sov.

Problem of course is that this requires you to live in these systems, exposing the home territories for weeks.. which is probably exactly what the designers had in mind.

[Endie]

Yeah I'd be concentrating on interdicting movement, getting Nync to gank incautious jump freighters and rorqs, shutting down jump bridges,

Trouble is that if your target has good resilience then your fleets start to dwindle and you get hot-dropped; jump bridges keep getting re-routed (and we have literally hundreds of spare towers, like many alliances now).  You could try the R64 thing, of course, but unless you kite every single one (and they are spread across many systems) then you're in for a hard time over a longish period.  Especially as they'll keep having to be repped as they get re-reinforced, being in your targets' space.

AAA et al seem to be making the same mistake we made in Delve I: trying to win the war on the bounce after the occupants have had some discouraging welps.  That may reflect their lack of faith in their ability to grind out a win over months, or it may be rashness, or it may be a wise gamble based on stuff I don't know about.

[Phildo]

As of about an hour ago, the station in 49- was repaired and all the sovereignty blockade units were destroyed.

[Endie]

Needs more hostiles.  AAA, Sys-K, Coven & UK are incapable of taking a well-timed system from GS and ZAF (I don't think that there were any Rebellion there, unsurprisingly, nor do i think that AAA C on the other side played much part) for a variety of reasons, most TZ-based, some not.

Of course, we're going to get more hostiles, pretty soon, and at that point this will be a lot more tricky.  Every chance we will probably start losing ground.  Once a certain level of capital and super-capital advantage is reached, the attackers will have a degree more liberty to operate.

This war will be decided by Goonswarm diplomats and CCP's developers.  I can think of a believeable scenario in which we lose stations - including 49- and NOL - and an equally believable one in which we throw IT out of Fountain.  The truth is liable to be somewhere in-between.

Only-tangentially-related note for those who don't know: Pulsar Inc, a c.250-ish strong Francophone corp from TCF (though not entirely French) will be joining Goonswarm.  While that's good for us Euro-TZ Goons (I like Baline Aegis), it leaves TCF looking rather vulnerable in Deklein with only 1200 people holding a big chunk of rich space.  Based on our experience with Russian-speakers OEG, I think that we'll assimilate Pulsar rather better than PL did Section XIII.  This is good for me, too, because I am working on improving my French.

[tgr]

There were actually a few rebellion popping in, I believe, right at the end of the day. I remember something about them wanting to pop in with dreads to "do something". i forget the exact details as it was getting close to 7am and I felt like trying to get a few minutes of shut-eye and headed back.

[slog]

So are we saying that the best way to take territory with the new Sov system is to attack multiple systems at once and make the defenders choose which one one they want to defend?

[Predator Irl]

So are we saying that the best way to take territory with the new Sov system is to attack multiple systems at once and make the defenders choose which one one they want to defend?

No the best way to take territory post dominion is to blob a system without informing CCP, lag it out and hope for the best.

[Endie]

There were actually a few rebellion popping in, I believe, right at the end of the day. I remember something about them wanting to pop in with dreads to "do something". i forget the exact details as it was getting close to 7am and I felt like trying to get a few minutes of shut-eye and headed back.

Well, by that time the op had been going on for six hours and it was pushing for 10am even in western Russia.

[setar]

The multiple system attack was in effect, basically -- between IT, Atlas, the TRI blob and -A-. Although I'm not convinced that GS would have been willing to help a prop up a failing PL anyway, attack on 49-U or not.

-A- needed _some_ attack as a wakeup call as well, so 49-U made sense. Taking it would have been a wonderful surprise, but I think only the somewhat more optimistic alliance members expected that to be a realistic scenario if GS defended actively. Even without the CVA distraction I don't see us taking that system without either additional blobs, or actively living in the area and giving up other parts of the 'homeland' in exchange.

[5150]

Any news on the CVA front btw?

[Endie]

The multiple system attack was in effect, basically -- between IT, Atlas, the TRI blob and -A-. Although I'm not convinced that GS would have been willing to help a prop up a failing PL anyway, attack on 49-U or not.

If AAA had not attacked 49-, and I had been free to do what I liked with the GS fleets, I would have put them in Pure Blind to save that system.  You've got fleet, waffe and capswarm, though you rarely see the size of all three together because people like Atlas back off.  Geminate would have been fine enough, and a nice, embarassing second climbdown in two weeks for Bobby wouldn't have helped him, but they could just come back again.  Tri will only keep going at stuff they dislike so long as they have a prospect of winning.

Basically, the good situation that Atlas, AAA, IT, Tri et al find themselves in right now is down to whatever PL faggots convinced themselves that hurr hurr let's attack NC lowends instead of facing a challenge and doing it in Stain.

[Pezzle]

LFA has successfully claimed 4 unclaimed Catch systems.  There were several large fights over the weekend.  I am sure the systems will continue being contested.  I am not aware of SBU's deployed by Providence.  I think the opposition deployed one or more in a system, which were destroyed.  Forces involved are the usual Providence people vs AAA and company plus SYS-K Coven and the rest from Paragon and Esoteria.  Probably the same people fighting goons in 49U.


Oh, SoT was in the area gate camping us as well.

[Simond]

Basically, the good situation that Atlas, AAA, IT, Tri et al find themselves in right now is down to whatever PL faggots convinced themselves that hurr hurr let's attack NC lowends instead of facing a challenge and doing it in Stain.

Paging Viper Shizzle. 

[Pezzle]

Pew Pew in WD tonight.  Was this the gang that was going to fight in 49u?  AAA placed 2 SBU.  They are destroyed.  Fight looks lopsided in our favor.  We had over 300 and the opposition was near 100, at least on killboards.  Winner is us!  All the credit goes to the 60+ drakes on our side!  Hell yeah, DRAKE POWER.

[MahrinSkel]

AAA et al seem to be making the same mistake we made in Delve I: trying to win the war on the bounce after the occupants have had some discouraging welps.  That may reflect their lack of faith in their ability to grind out a win over months, or it may be rashness, or it may be a wise gamble based on stuff I don't know about.

AAA doesn't need to "win" anything.  They just need you *occupied*, while IT settles in up in Fountain.  And it works, you've got to "honor the threat", if you tried to stage an offensive against IT instead they'd be more than happy to take 49-U and try to cut off Period Basis.  But if all they get is a month or so of skirmishing back and forth, they're good to go.

If you don't want to be facing a two-front war against IT and AAA, from the North *and* the East, you need AAA in a two-front war *now*.  CVA in HED is an existential threat to AAA, but only if they aren't seen as such by the rest of the South.  You put goon ships in that front and everything escalates, but if you have any sense you'll be pouring *buckets* of money into them, and giving them every bit of support by espionage and diplomacy you can manage.

--Dave

[slog]

AAA et al seem to be making the same mistake we made in Delve I: trying to win the war on the bounce after the occupants have had some discouraging welps.  That may reflect their lack of faith in their ability to grind out a win over months, or it may be rashness, or it may be a wise gamble based on stuff I don't know about.

AAA doesn't need to "win" anything.  They just need you *occupied*, while IT settles in up in Fountain.  And it works, you've got to "honor the threat", if you tried to stage an offensive against IT instead they'd be more than happy to take 49-U and try to cut off Period Basis.  But if all they get is a month or so of skirmishing back and forth, they're good to go.

If you don't want to be facing a two-front war against IT and AAA, from the North *and* the East, you need AAA in a two-front war *now*.  CVA in HED is an existential threat to AAA, but only if they aren't seen as such by the rest of the South.  You put goon ships in that front and everything escalates, but if you have any sense you'll be pouring *buckets* of money into them, and giving them every bit of support by espionage and diplomacy you can manage.

--Dave

I think Fountain is pretty much conceded.

[Sir T]

The real problem is the simple fact that most of the decent people on our side have quit eve. The people that are left in 0.0 are sad guys that are totally obsessed with us. Everyone else won eve and wandered off to their lives.

That's really what happened to PL. the real leaders stopped playing or left and they absorbed a bunch of ex GBC that were trolled into attacking the NC. Then when IT came along they basically went "OH MOLLIE!!" Hell I've been on the verge of quitting for months. Eve is not really that much fun when alls said and done.

[setar]

Welcome to BOB about 18 months ago. And I'm half serious about it; back then they had lost most of their veteran FCs and former allies (MC, some of the pets they installed). To your credit, you didn't come up with campaign slogans like 'MAX'.

That said, this is far from a done deal. TRI might go emo any day, freeing up RAZOR and friends to stop by. The drone russians might decide they don't like the new power balance and get involved heavily. Heck, Molle might ignore the South and go for MAX Reloaded, leaving us with a permanent two-front fight.

[Fordel]

Goonswarm is only fun to read about when it's a few thousand of them being retarded and terrible but still managing to win anyways. I guess those days are over :(

[Endie]

Goonswarm is only fun to read about when it's a few thousand of them being retarded and terrible but still managing to win anyways. I guess those days are over :(

We've not lost anything yet. It's going to get very hard very soon, when instead of being just a bit outnumbered, we're in fact outnumbered two or even three to one or so, depending who comes.  But Ill take a battle of staying-power with AAA and Tri if that's going to be the test of Goonerdammerung.

[setar]

Goonerdammerung

Hadn't seen that before. The opportunity for posters...

[Endie]

Goonerdammerung

Hadn't seen that before. The opportunity for posters...

Well just be sure to attribute: I think I made it up since it's never been used anywhere that google or goonfleet dot com's search engine know about, except in a couple of my own posts.

[Endie]

Euro goons tried to stop the latest SBUs from being anchored by AAA and friends, but we failed.  Outnumbered something like 1.75 to one, we (as usual) edged the all-important K/D thing but lost the (utterly unimportant) strategic objective.  Net result is that the station and the ihub both come out of reinforced timers tomorrow night in US prime.  I'd not be surprised to see IT start to get involved more as the week goes on.  I'll probably be more interested if they don't for two or three weeks, though.  That would mean they assess certain things differently from me.

[Pennilenko]

Euro goons tried to stop the latest SBUs from being anchored by AAA and friends, but we failed.  Outnumbered something like 1.75 to one, we (as usual) edged the all-important K/D thing but lost the (utterly unimportant) strategic objective.  Net result is that the station and the ihub both come out of reinforced timers tomorrow night in US prime.  I'd not be surprised to see IT start to get involved more as the week goes on.  I'll probably be more interested if they don't for two or three weeks, though.  That would mean they assess certain things differently from me.

The outnumbering was definitely more than 1.75 to 1.

[Fordel]

Goonswarm is only fun to read about when it's a few thousand of them being retarded and terrible but still managing to win anyways. I guess those days are over :(

We've not lost anything yet. It's going to get very hard very soon, when instead of being just a bit outnumbered, we're in fact outnumbered two or even three to one or so, depending who comes.  But Ill take a battle of staying-power with AAA and Tri if that's going to be the test of Goonerdammerung.

But there are no longer thousands of you being retarded and terrible is my point!


The last great moment of glorious retardation, in my mind, was when you guys were clearing out the PoS's in Delve, and your forums went down, so you just decided to use CAOD as your forums in the mean time.

[slog]

Goonswarm is only fun to read about when it's a few thousand of them being retarded and terrible but still managing to win anyways. I guess those days are over :(

We've not lost anything yet. It's going to get very hard very soon, when instead of being just a bit outnumbered, we're in fact outnumbered two or even three to one or so, depending who comes.  But Ill take a battle of staying-power with AAA and Tri if that's going to be the test of Goonerdammerung.

But there are no longer thousands of you being retarded and terrible is my point!


The last great moment of glorious retardation, in my mind, was when you guys were clearing out the PoS's in Delve, and your forums went down, so you just decided to use CAOD as your forums in the mean time.

That was more of an acknowledgment that everyone reads our forums anyway.

[Fordel]

It was hilarious though, just how you completely took over that section of the forums. As if nothing at all was unusual about the situation.

[Endie]

It was funny, but not retarded. What that did was to say to kenzoku that we were going to win, and even by posting exactly where and when our capitals would be deployed we couldn't endanger our victory. It was a gesture of contempt.