Author
|
Topic: Star Trek (CBS VOD 2017) (Read 129898 times)
|
Riggswolfe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8029
|
Cons for fans of Trek: A) It ignores that badges in the TOS era were unique to ships and stations and that the classic Starfleet badge was originally only for the Enterprise. That changed after Kirk's five year mission. B) It is set in the time period of the original TOS pilot called the Cage. The uniforms in that time period did not look like a sort of Enterprise with silver piping like they do in this series. They looked like this: Admittedly, these uniforms are kind of boring and blah. But they are what was worn in this time period. This tells me the showrunners have zero respect for the property. This should have been set after Voyager and advanced the timeline. If that were the case we could've ignored this kind of thing. "Oh, it's later in the timeline, guess they changed uniforms again and some weird shit happened to the Klingons. Wonder if they'll explain it?"
|
"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
|
|
|
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42631
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
|
This tells me the showrunners have zero respect for the property. It is known.
|
|
|
|
Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5576
|
This tells me the showrunners have zero respect for the property. It is known. If you followed production, this was always the case. As usual, the IP owners were at odds with the folk with the vision and the passion (and the fans). This is why the original director left and a lot of cast bolted. Now we have this Abrams prequel basically. This is still all basically carryover from handing the franchise to Abrams though. If you want to cast blame, cast it then/there. You cannot have that much Hollywood money/power dipping their hands into ST and expect quality at the lower end. Low-level producers will fall into line to catch the scraps. Not making "Captain Worf" when any idiot knew it would be gold? Speaks volumes.
|
"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom." -Samwise
|
|
|
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3888
|
What they need to do is a total reboot, put it on TV and collect the monies for 7 years. Get rid of the bad films, the forcing of a contemporary series into the structure of the old timeline(s), and all that junk. Thank Trekkies for their loyalty, but start anew with a new take on the original crew.
|
2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
|
|
|
Samprimary
|
I see trek is breaking new ground by daring to feature tv's first wood-based lifeform captain
|
|
|
|
Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
|
Do I need to say "It's dead, Jim." or can we just all agree this pile of horseshit is going to be best avoided.
TOS 4 lyfe
|
Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
Do I need to say "It's dead, Jim." or can we just all agree this pile of horseshit is going to be best avoided.
TOS 4 lyfe
It's dead and they're killing the IP with all this fuckery between this awful series and the reboot that isn't loved by hardcore fans. This risks becoming Dick Tracy in terms of becoming an IP whose response is, "Oh yeah, I remember my Grandparents watched that."
|
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
Ghambit
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5576
|
At this point, all hope is lost. I mean, look at Paramount's response to Renegades (which was the last original timeline 'movie' ever done). In June 2016, the team announced that in response to new requirements on Star Trek fan films issued by CBS and Paramount Pictures, their upcoming film "Requiem" would remove all references to Star Trek. The series itself was renamed Renegades. As I said, the Prime timeline is... prime now. And that's that. There will be no rebooted original timeline, nor will there be an original one, nor any offshoots. The IP is no longer open and the direction mutinied back to Abrams' style. A crapton of great Trek concepts have been pitched to Paramount, and they've killed all of them. Including pitches by original cast members (Dorn included). You're talking about a company that killed a full-sized Enterprise D being built in downtown Vegas as a casino-resort. Because... "they'd mess it up and make Trek look bad." The real reasons were more about ego and current IP than anything else. Can't believe Star Wars is a better, more open, and capable concept at this point. It's almost like their roles have reversed and SW is the way richer, more rewarding 'verse to play in. Iamsad.
|
"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom." -Samwise
|
|
|
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
|
What I find kind of fascinating is that Paramount is so relatively indifferent to the IP. I suppose someone there thinks he's safeguarding it, but it really comes off as "eh, who cares, I guess we own that."
|
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
Ever underestimate the power of an executive with a bias. Especially in creative and production environments.
|
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223
|
Of they figure they have sucked as many Billions as it can out of this lemon and its time to junk it, to stop it interfering with other IPs.
|
Hic sunt dracones.
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
I'd buy that only if Paramount wasn't also trying to revive other garbage IPs like xXx and GI Joe to create 'movie-verses'. Those are the big thing everyone wants now that Disney is making bank on two of them.
They've done it with Transformers, are trying to do it with GI Joe and (rumored) M.A.S.K., Micronauts and Visionaires. The last 3 were BARELY passable IP in the 80's, nevermind trying to build a property around them now when everyone realizes they were just Toy-tie-in garbage trying to capitalize on the popularity of Transformers, GI Joe, MLP and Care Bears.
Star Trek HAD that cache. The only reason not to exploit it is bias or a complete disdain for the property.
|
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
|
I really think the only explanation is a kind of irrational disdain for the property, yeah. Somebody up there literally is just sick of people who liked the show complaining when they make it much more about tits and explosions, because that's just about all they know how to do with their "verses".
|
|
|
|
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3888
|
While the theories usually imagine a nefarious intent, the reality is usually that someone without talent gets the wheel and they'Re too arrogant to get the assistance needed to do things right.
|
2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
|
|
|
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
|
Trek seems to have issues with that in general, to be honest. Even Roddenberry got pretty out of control after having had Trek adulation heaped on him for years; the showrunners during the TNG/DS9/Voyager era definitely developed some odd forms of possessiveness and obsession at times. There was a guy overseeing the licensed comics and books who was apparently a psycho control freak who drove many authors away. Maybe it's because it was available to be "owned", as opposed to Star Wars and other franchises that were highly creator-controlled or where the megabucks involved were several magnitudes greater.
I'm pretty convinced that Trek can make megabucks but very likely only if they really wipe the slate clean and try a completely new show that:
a) respects the basics: this is an optimistic and basically liberal-American future; some of the drama has to come from balancing the military, scientific and diplomatic responsibilities of a Starfleet vessel; at least feinting towards more thoughtful or issue-oriented narratives is important. b) tackles the weaknesses: Trek has never done arcs and continuity well but has been at its best when it has done arcs and continuity, so learn how to do them; do some better world-building that shores up long-standing Trek weaknesses rather than makes fun of them or plays them for laughs (you can't beat Galaxy Quest in this respect, so don't even try); some more complex characterizations and character arcs are needed.
I think I have mentioned it before but I recall JMS back when he used to engage fans before and during the making of Babylon 5 saying that he'd pitched a Trek reboot at one point and been turned down flat that basically had the following elements:
1) ditched the universal translator and everything else that made first contact easy 2) put the ship at the center of it way, way out beyond easy resupply or support from the Federation, with even communication taking several days, so that the crew genuinely has to make decisions on its own 3) make the crew small and the ship vulnerable, so that they can't just breeze their way into dangerous situations 4) make the ship's mission to be fundamentally about first contact, and have 3-5 episode arcs that center on first contact with a new world, with a subplot/background arc that involves an entire region or area of space and its secrets 5) get rid of the transporter; all landing is via shuttle
This seems completely right to me.
|
|
|
|
Strazos
Greetings from the Slave Coast
Posts: 15542
The World's Worst Game: Curry or Covid
|
Didn't Enterprise do some of that?
And then people hated it?
|
Fear the Backstab! "Plato said the virtuous man is at all times ready for a grammar snake attack." - we are lesion "Hell is other people." -Sartre
|
|
|
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3888
|
Enterprise did some of that, but it also did a lot of really horribly executed crap as well. Sexy decontamination was not on the above list, for example. The failure of one implementation of an idea doesn't mean there is no way to execute it and make something great.
I'd love to see a JMS Star Trek. He has my faith. Sense8 has been a bit disappointing to me, but all of his other stuff has been enjoyable for me.
|
2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
|
|
|
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
|
Enterprise didn't really have the guts to do all of that--and what people hated about it was not that notion of a less-masterful Federation. They hated the really dumb Time Cop element, the generic episodic scripts (people started kind of digging it when they moved to having a more high-stakes arc), and some of the really WTF fan service (see: radiation decontamination with erotic gel in underwear for starters). Like, I'm not against sexy Vulcan porn but let's just do sexy Vulcan porn, then, not try to mix it into an ostensibly non-porn show because you think a bunch of horny guys who never got out of mom's basement are watching.
|
|
|
|
Reg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5273
|
I still have nightmares about the Space Nazi season. Their last season though, when they knew they were cancelled actually had some good episodes. I'm glad I didn't stop watching out of disgust.
|
|
|
|
Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10510
https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png
|
Well I never once watched Enterprise, but now you guys have my interest perked.
|
"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor." -Stephen Colbert
|
|
|
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
|
|
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
I will note here that Jolene Blalok has nudes out there that weren't stolen from a phone. You will, however, have to rummage through hundreds of bad photoshops.
|
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42631
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
|
I've never watched Enterprise. HOLY FUCK. That scene was awkward, uncomfortable and made no goddamn sense. There's no logical reason either of them would have any clothes on nor would they need to rub the gel on each other. Whoever wrote that and decided to keep it in as filmed should never work in television again.
|
|
|
|
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3888
|
Enterprise was derailed from the start by executives forcing Un-Trek into Trek because they thought they knew better and didn't want to just give us a rehash of TNG, ToS, or anything else that had come before. If you go back to the elements of the show that were true to the core of Star Trek - it was fine. However, too many people gave up on the idiocy before they got elements right - and they never eliminated all the idiocy.
As it was some of our earliest Trek continuity, it is unfortunately locked in until we get a real reboot.
|
2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
|
|
|
luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947
|
The last season of Enterprise was actually decent, IMO. The smaller, multiple story arcs that helped stage some of TNG stuff was refreshing from the time travel bullshit.
|
"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
|
|
|
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27449
Badge Whore
|
Paramount declares that this is, in fact, just reusing an IP 's name because creating a new brand is hard and tosses out the "most restrictive" rule about Star Trek; the "Roddenberry Box" http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/23/star-trek-discovery-rules/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_facebook_entertainmentweeklyAs part of Trek creator Gene Roddenberry’s utopian vision of the future (and one that Trek franchise executive producer Rick Berman carried on after Roddenberry’s death in 1991), writers on Trek shows were urged to avoid having Starfleet crew members in significant conflict with one another (unless a crew member is, say, possessed by an alien force), or from being shown in any seriously negative way. Ignoring that part of this wasn't just Roddenberry's vision for the future, but that the type of conflicts they're trying to promote get you a court martial in a military. But hey, when has TV writing ever been about realism?
|
The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
|
|
|
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3888
|
Enterprise was derailed from the start by executives forcing Un-Trek into Trek ... Redux.
|
2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
|
|
|
eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11843
|
Feel it us worth pointing out that in a world overrun by populist idiots, just redoing tNG would be awesome and relevant.
|
"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
|
|
|
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42631
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
|
The ones who say that Rodenberry's box too severely hampered their ability to write compelling stories, I say, shut the fuck up. WRITE BETTER.
|
|
|
|
Ruvaldt
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2398
Goat Variations
|
Undiscovered Country definitely goes against Roddenberry's Box and it's a good movie. Balance of Terror, in the original series, does as well, and is spectacular. In fact, a large number of episodes Roddenberry was heavily involved in ditches it. I mean...just watch Space Seed. Lots of TNG, DS9 and Voyager episodes do it as well. Roddenberry, and Star Trek in general, have always been extremely inconsistent.
Star Trek has changed with the times, and that's a good thing. If we want to go full nerd and expect complete adherence to canon, technically there shouldn't be female captains in this new series at all. We learn in the TOS episode Turnabout Intruder that women aren't allowed to be captains of starships in Starfleet. Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of deviation from canon.
|
"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
|
|
|
Khaldun
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15163
|
Honestly, I think Star Trek at several points succeeded in spite of Roddenberry, not because of him.
|
|
|
|
Sir T
Terracotta Army
Posts: 14223
|
Leonard Nimoy, in particular, never got on with Roddenbery and talks about it in his Autobiography. Some of the "Nimoy hates Spock" stuff actually came from Nimoy fighting with Roddenbery.
|
|
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 04:33:21 PM by Sir T »
|
|
Hic sunt dracones.
|
|
|
jgsugden
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3888
|
Roddenberry had a vision for his universe. However, it wasn't his universe by the end of his life. A lot of hands owned it. However, when it was first released, nobody cared enough about it to get in his way and he was able to establish it over 3 seasons. Since then, a few people that 'got' Roddenberry continued his vision (and while he was alive - with his heavy involvement). Since then, Trek evolved into a money stick and everyone wants to make their name, and paycheck, by guiding it. Most of them have no idea how to maintain the Roddenberry vision, much less how to evolve it into the present day.
The best thing they can do is find someone that gets the Roddenberry's vision and can update it to the present day, ask them the best way to do it, and run with that for 5 years to re-establish the brand value (regardless of how profitable it is). Then they can start another round of breaking it down and making profit off of it and repeat the restoration in 15 years.
|
2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
|
|
|
Draegan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10043
|
|
|
|
|
Special J
Terracotta Army
Posts: 536
|
Star Trek has changed with the times, and that's a good thing. If we want to go full nerd and expect complete adherence to canon, technically there shouldn't be female captains in this new series at all. We learn in the TOS episode Turnabout Intruder that women aren't allowed to be captains of starships in Starfleet. Yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that aspect of deviation from canon.
Yeah I'm really not that worried about a few inconsistencies And yanked for some reason. But I got your back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqBz8QsZNcQWhile I love a good space battle, I hope they're jacking up all the action and explosions for the trailer, and the series has more Stars and Trekking. But I am a little more optimistic. EDIT: wait a sec, Klingons have 4 nostrils now?
|
|
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 07:37:54 AM by Special J »
|
|
|
|
|
|
|