Dark Days Are Coming - New Funcom Project

[Ollie]

What a sad, sad little gamer I am. That list actually got me excited. Quite unlike the latest trailer, which still puts me to sleep. I tried watching it again just to be sure I wasn't Negative Nancying the whole affair, and got even more annoyed by the clunky animation.

I'll happily forgo polish and fully fleshed out game systems at launch as the unattainable pipedreams that they are. I just hope Funcom nail two things that they fumbled in AoC: meaningful top to bottom character progression and shared world zone sizes.

I actually quite liked that progression wasn't gear-driven back in AoC's early Godager days. It was just that Funcom forgot to add anything meaningful in its place. Tiered raids and random loot that has little to no impact on the character's effectiveness are a bit of an odd design combo. I successfully main-healed our tank, a gimpy Dark Templar no less, while he wore nothing but his briefs in Kyllikki's Crypt. No kiting either. If we agree that character progression in a shared persistent space is kind of what the MMORPG experience is all about, the lack of said elements put a bit of a damper on things. It doesn't have to be tied to gear, in fact I'd prefer if it wasn't, but do give us some meaningful ways to advance our characters at cap.

And shared world zone size, while highly subjective, was kind of a pet peeve of mine. I just wish TSW doesn't end up quite as claustrophobic and closed-in as AoC felt at times. A shame it was too, since Funcom really gave Turbine a run for their money when it came to world design.

[Rasix]

I'll happily forgo polish and fully fleshed out game systems at launch as the unattainable pipedreams that they are.

You need to start wearing a shirt that says "I'm everything that's wrong with gaming."

[Ollie]

Serves me right I suppose, trying to be circumspect in a Funcom thread. That was my roundabout way of saying I have absolutely no expectations when it comes to those wacky Norwegians.  I just didn't want to be a big meanie and stomp all over their aspirations of not sucking right out of the gate.

So about that shirt, should I ask the printer to make two? You can always use yours to wipe the spittle off the monitor once you're done chastising me.  

Edit: spelling is hard.

[trias_e]

I'll happily forgo polish and fully fleshed out game systems at launch as the unattainable pipedreams that they are.

You need to start wearing a shirt that says "I'm everything that's wrong with gaming."

I'd rather have the odd incomplete pipedreams than the soulless repetitive bullshit that the MMORPG genre has to offer at this point, to be honest. 

[Stabs]

ARGs will also continue after launch, according to Tornquist.

Argggh! My quest is bugged!
Argggh! I can't open my backpack!
Argggh! I'm stuck on terrain AGAIN!

  Funcom

[Lantyssa]

The trailer didn't turn me off at all.  The design goals are still more what I'm interested in than anything out there or on the horizon.  If it's not a buggy piece of work, and I don't have to hit up, down, left, up, sideways for a single attack, then I'll likely be happy.

[palmer_eldritch]

I'm also everything that's wrong with gaming. I like MMOs, but they're a lot more fun if you have low expectations.

[Rasix]

So about that shirt, should I ask the printer to make two? You can always use yours to wipe the spittle off the monitor once you're done chastising me.  

I'm not ready to retire my UO cloth map yet.  

No need for a roll call either.  I know you're out there. How else did STO get subs?  

[HaemishM]

I'll happily forgo polish and fully fleshed out game systems at launch as the unattainable pipedreams that they are.

You need to start wearing a shirt that says "I'm everything that's wrong with gaming."

I'd rather have the odd incomplete pipedreams than the soulless repetitive bullshit that the MMORPG genre has to offer at this point, to be honest. 

Hey, it's Funcom. Who says you can't have both? 

[patience]

What a sad, sad little gamer I am. That list actually got me excited.

Don't get too excited. Pieces of that list and the trailer reminded me too much of my infatuation with Chronicles of Spellborn.

It seems like they have a manageable list of features but the reality may not be the case.

[Soln]

it could all be just an early prototype

[Ollie]

I can't see what could possibly go wrong, seeing as Funcom have traditionally handled scope creep so very well, and always delivered on their game features as promised.

Drunken brawling, anyone? 

[Draegan]

Chronicles of Spellborn was fun actually.  It was just the shitty grind and pacing.  The rest was actually fun.

[tmp]

Incidentally, this is how you make a trailer that actually works. When i clicked that, i had no idea what "Red Dead Redemption" even was. 3 minutes later i was frothing and hoping for a PC port. That's just 1:30 more than Funcom's offering.

Quite amazing how much more info can be packed with matter-of-fact narrative instead of bullshit ominous voiceovers, the shots which actually illustrate the features your game is supposed to have, and if you don't fill 1/3rd of your work with company logos and huge white letters.

[Goreschach]

Incidentally, this is how you make a trailer that actually works. When i clicked that, i had no idea what "Red Dead Redemption" even was. 3 minutes later i was frothing and hoping for a PC port. That's just 1:30 more than Funcom's offering.

Quite amazing how much more info can be packed with matter-of-fact narrative instead of bullshit ominous voiceovers, the shots which actually illustrate the features your game is supposed to have, and if you don't fill 1/3rd of your work with company logos and huge white letters.

Unfortunately the games industry is too busy trying to be Hollywood to advertise embarrassing stuff like gameplay.

[Ghambit]

Honestly, I'd rather have a bunch of placeholders and basic nurbs if it'll get me meaningful gameplay explanation, rather than all the meaningless bling.  I swear, sometimes it seems like they just have a bunch of artists making frameworks and textures and their designers are just sitting there twiddling their thumbs.

Also, if you remember... AoC had one of the most informative dev. cycles ever.  There were vids and explanations every day practically, very visceral and very informative at just about every major point in development.  This game?  Polar opposite.  It's literally The Secret World.

Perhaps it's better this way though. 

[HaemishM]

Designers, coders and programmers who get pulled off, you know, designing and building the game to do bullshit trailers and presentations - THEY HATE THAT SHIT. I fully think half the trailers suck so bad because some asshead producer wants to be Oliver Stone and the other half suck because the programmers who were forced to do it on no sleep over an 38-hour weekend are pissed off and don't really want to do it.

[Draegan]

At the beginning of March Ragnar was going on and on via Twitter about his stupid cinematic that he loved oh so much.  If this was what he was talking about, I think he was on crack.

[Ollie]

Oh dear, not Ragnar too.

Erling Ellingsen's hyperbole must be spreading like an airborne virus, infecting people left and right. If this keeps up, there's not a soul at Funcom who can manage customer expectations with any sanity at all. Soon they'll all join Godager and go look for that elusive hamburger they've been missing out on while enjoying steak and fine wine these past two years.

Yes, I went there.

[Famine]

Incidentally, this is how you make a trailer that actually works. When i clicked that, i had no idea what "Red Dead Redemption" even was. 3 minutes later i was frothing and hoping for a PC port. That's just 1:30 more than Funcom's offering.

Quite amazing how much more info can be packed with matter-of-fact narrative instead of bullshit ominous voiceovers, the shots which actually illustrate the features your game is supposed to have, and if you don't fill 1/3rd of your work with company logos and huge white letters.

That may because Red Dead Redemption (Release Date: May 18, 2010) is coming out next month where TSW is well... There is a huge difference.  

[Stabs]

You heard it here first follks - TSW not surprise releasing in May '10.

[Ollie]

That may because Red Dead Redemption (Release Date: May 18, 2010) is coming out next month where TSW is well... There is a huge difference.  

Look, most nerdy enthusiasts recognise a big fat "work in progress" stamp on footage when they see it. Little inconsequential things like the incomplete lighting passes Draegan and I harped on a page or so back are minute enough not to lose any sleep over. They'll get ironed out eventually.

I'd wager the biggest reason for the mixed reviews is that people were looking for clues on how the essential gameplay mechanics will turn out. What little we saw mostly raised more questions than it answered.

Then again, criticism tends to approach its object through negation. Even if you'd deliver footage of a robot baby Jesus with universal appeal, we'd find things to bitch about. No surprise there.

[Goreschach]

The entire point of a teaser trailer is to tease. Regardless of all the idiots trying to 'mature the artform' because they're insecure about making 'kiddie toys', videogames are gameplay based and not story based. That trailer failed to tease me because it showed nothing about gameplay. If the game is still so early in development that you have no gameplay to show, then why are you showing it?

[Draegan]

Exactly.  I don't give a damn about a trailer if I can't watch the game being played.  I usually skip through voice over cinematics.

[Famine]

That may because Red Dead Redemption (Release Date: May 18, 2010) is coming out next month where TSW is well... There is a huge difference.  

Look, most nerdy enthusiasts recognise a big fat "work in progress" stamp on footage when they see it. Little inconsequential things like the incomplete lighting passes Draegan and I harped on a page or so back are minute enough not to lose any sleep over. They'll get ironed out eventually.

I'd wager the biggest reason for the mixed reviews is that people were looking for clues on how the essential gameplay mechanics will turn out. What little we saw mostly raised more questions than it answered.

Then again, criticism tends to approach its object through negation. Even if you'd deliver footage of a robot baby Jesus with universal appeal, we'd find things to bitch about. No surprise there.

I had this cool response typed out, but I decided not to fill in the blanks. I will simply disagree with you on showing footage that may contain obvious signs of "work in progress".

(if that's what you're hinting).  

[tmp]

That may because Red Dead Redemption (Release Date: May 18, 2010) is coming out next month where TSW is well... There is a huge difference.  

While i get that, i was under impression (based on 'exclusive previews' published by some sites) that your game had at least parts of it implemented, to the point where the players could play in the zombie themepark and ultimately take on some souped up Trash King, and that there was some mechanics in place as well. But i get none of that from the trailer. Not even what sort of a game it's supposed to be, let alone any particular features it's supposed to have.

And regarding RDR specifically, that was 2nd trailer in the series they made. The first one was around apparently since December last year. I'll take it that means Dark Days are way off making an appearance in the next 5 months, too.

[Goreschach]

I could be really snarky and post that there is something incredibly telling about thinking that having gameplay implemented means you'll be ready to ship in a month, but out of respect for Famine I think I'll pass.






Oh what the hell, I'll post it anyway. 

[Mrbloodworth]

first one

Just want to chime in and say, I was not really impressed with the first one, but that looks like hotness.

[Famine]

That may because Red Dead Redemption (Release Date: May 18, 2010) is coming out next month where TSW is well... There is a huge difference.  

While i get that, i was under impression (based on 'exclusive previews' published by some sites) that your game had at least parts of it implemented, to the point where the players could play in the zombie themepark and ultimately take on some souped up Trash King, and that there was some mechanics in place as well. But i get none of that from the trailer. Not even what sort of a game it's supposed to be, let alone any particular features it's supposed to have.

And regarding RDR specifically, that was 2nd trailer in the series they made. The first one was around apparently since December last year. I'll take it that means Dark Days are way off making an appearance in the next 5 months, too.

That's understandable, exclusives can be received in many different ways. It's not like any game developers is going to come out and try to correct impressions as they come up. It's one of the hard parts of showing pieces of a game (mostly the good stuff) to the public as opposed to just showing a long slice of gameplay.

I think as we get closer to where we want to be, you will see more visuals on what's going on with development. That's when you can really honestly say if the initial exclusives are really hooking you or not. Until then, it's understandable how it's going to be hard to say if the game is going to appeal to you before full release.

For me, I can have the luxury of seeing the full picture behind the scenes. I can honestly say that there is a lot of great things in the works. I wish I could call people out on it, but that's just how it rolls for now. I'll just spend my time taking in the initial impressions and ensure I smack the developers in the head with them so they utilize it to their advantage and improve what they currently have.

[Count Nerfedalot]

Designers, coders and programmers who get pulled off, you know, designing and building the game to do bullshit trailers and presentations - THEY HATE THAT SHIT. I fully think half the trailers suck so bad because some asshead producer wants to be Oliver Stone and the other half suck because the programmers who were forced to do it on no sleep over an 38-hour weekend are pissed off and don't really want to do it.

"bullshit trailers and presentations" - the technical term is "dog-and-pony show".  Such wastes of time and energy do nothing to improve the product much less advance it toward completion.  The only reason they exist is to either "justify" the marketer's salary/fees waaay before he's actually useful, or to give management something they can throw to the ravening investors (existing or prospective) to try to mask the fact that they aren't nearly as far along as they foolishly promised they would be by this time, over the objections of their technical people whose estimates, if they asked for them at all, were completely ignored.

[Margalis]

Exactly.  I don't give a damn about a trailer if I can't watch the game being played.

Many of the most successful commercials contain exactly zero gameplay footage.

Edit: IMO most games start their PR way too early and are vastly overexposed by release time.

[Ollie]

In the vein of early exposure, TSW's il direttore Ragnar Tørnquist answered a bunch of community questions on the official forums. Nothing earth-shattering, but a few fun tidbits nonetheless.
Yes, there will be PvP arenas and yes, all NPCs will be fully voiced. Permission to shake in your stylish yet affordable booties granted, Bioware.

Q1: Will TSW provide an abundance of Social Events (like current ARGs but in game) and social locations to party/etc? (FaithLove)

Our hubs are social arenas where players can engage in non-combat activities. As for what, exactly, those 'non-combat activities' will be, we haven't revealed yet, but we want to create a world that isn’t just about serving your secret society or slaying demons. We want to give players tools to do more than that, and we'll probably talk more about this soon.


Q2: Will there be 'mounts', like horses, bikes, cars or dinosaurs? (Lorr)

We haven’t made any announcements yet – although dinosaur mounts would clearly be awesome. Anything is possible.


Q3: Can you make a Templar and Dragon and Illuminati character? (Shoval)

Your character can only belong to a single secret society – and switching societies isn’t possible. Whether you can create a new character in a different secret society on the same account or server is something we haven’t communicated yet.


Q4: Will it really be impossible to switch secret societies? (Annihilator27)

As above, your choice of secret society is for life. To even think of joining the enemy is treason.


Q5: When you make a game that's very lore and story driven, it can be easy to fall into a linear structure, because you really want to be sure that the player knows the full story. How do you find a balance between telling a main story and at the same time, giving players the freedom to explore? (Kasama)

Players can jump in and out of the main storyline as they please. They don’t have to follow it. Exploration is both encouraged and, sometimes, required, since you may not yet be ready - or powerful enough - to continue on your journey. To uncover the entire story, every little piece of it, you really do have to explore the world and discover its secrets – that’s a key element to the game, and something we’ve created mechanics to support. In The Secret World, story IS gameplay.


Q6: In one of the first interviews, you mentioned that TSW would have extensive voice-overs, with at that time over 100 voice-actors. How is this coming along? Will the game have full voice-overs, or only the "main" quest lines like in Age of Conan? (Ardanwen)

All non-player characters will have full voice-overs, for all missions - not just the main story mission.


Q7: How will the character creator be like? (AlexanderFG)

It will be fun and flexible! I can't really say more than that. Character creation is obviously very important, and we've tied some cool story elements to the process, making it part of your journey into the secret world.


Q8: Is there going to be any "battlegrounds" or arenas for PvP or is it all going to be open world? (Scooch)

We haven’t really talked about this yet, but what the hell: there will be arenas for PvP matches – in addition to the ongoing society battle for world domination.


Q9: The Secret World exists so far from the mundane world... how elaborate/visual will the magic in game be? How varied? (Azaris)

The Secret World isn’t very far from our everyday world at all; we just tend to look the other way. It's the world down that dark alley, beyond the tall fence, through the door of the rundown house on the edge of town. It's the world that we glimpse when we take a shortcut home one night and see shadows lurking off the beaten path. It's the world we see in the corner of our eye but are afraid to acknowledge because it would make us question everything we hold to be true. It's the world behind the curtains, where puppet-masters pull strings, making governments, religions and corporations dance to their tunes. It's our world, without the coat of white paint, and it's right here, right now, if you only knew how to look. There’s going to be tons of variety in terms of what kind of magic players can learn and how they can use it – both in terms of visuals and gameplay – and that also goes for the magic weapons players get to wield. But it's still magic of our world, not a world of elves and dwarves and dragons (well, um, sort of), and it'll feel as such. There's voodoo, illusionism, demonology - magics that belong in the darkest corners of Earth, not in some high fantasy world.


Q10: Would you say TSW is more of a story-driven MMO or an action-based MMO? (Ironfeet)

I’d say it’s a heavily story-driven MMORPG with tons of cool action! Obviously, the setting and the story are incredibly important to us. We’re putting a lot of work and attention into the universe, into the characters and the voice-overs and the lore, into all those game mechanics that are geared towards immersing the player in the storyline, making them feel part of something grand and ancient and secret, part of these age-old conspiracies and powerful secret societies. But you also spend a lot of your time fighting creatures of darkness – that’s what the story is about. It’s about the rising tide of evil, about these normal, average people being granted incredible powers, and about how they use those powers to battle darkness - in service of their cabals.

Original thread here. Also, in tried and true TSW fashion, there was a hidden message embedded in the thread:

[bhodi]

Many of the most successful commercials contain exactly zero gameplay footage.

Please back this up.

[Lantyssa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpJX7hgRjJo

[NiX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpJX7hgRjJo

Trailers aren't commercials. They're lies.