Cracks starting to show?

[WindupAtheist]

"Detracts from shared social districts."

What a joke. Let people shit up Trade chat from their houses, place a bunch of NPC characters wearing the latest raid tier around the current hub city to lag the hell out of it, and who would even know the difference?

[Ashamanchill]

place a bunch of NPC characters wearing the latest raid tier around the current hub city to lag the hell out of it, and who would even know the difference?

Lol. For some reason that cracked me up way too hard. I kept picturing some obvious forgery, like Lord Marrowgar or some shit, standing around Org in crummy shoulder pads.

[Dren]

Maybe this has been covered and I missed it, but I found a crack that I'm amazed isn't being dealt with quicker.

Strand of the Ancients:
1.  Currently the Hangar doesn't work.  You can capture it, but if you use the portal you either get dropped from the sky out in the middle of the zone and die OR you just don't go anywhere.  What happens is that there is ALWAYS somebody in the raid that will go capture the Hangar.  Multiple people will die trying to use it.  Then, if the other side is smart, they don't go recapture it because now anyone dieing in that area will rez at the hangar, which is a huge waste of travel time to get back into battle.  In my experience, Alliance is always the one taking the Hangar even though 1/2 the raid tells them not to at the beginning.

2.  For Alliance, when you knock down the Horde gates, they are replaced by a huge bright pink block that does not allow you to pass through it.  At all.  The Alliance keep does not have this issue, so Horde can use whatever method they need to knock down the gates and storm the castle.  Alliance has only one option once a gate is down to end the game.  They have to take the docks and use catapults to get over the walls.  There ONLY other option is to prevent Horde from getting the gate down and outkilling them character by character for the long drawn out win.

I put a ticket in the other day after weeks of going through this just to see what they say.  I cancelled my ticket after 3 days of sitting there.  Then I got mail 2 days after that explaining that they are aware of the issue and working on it.

My issue is that with a problem as big as this, take it down completely.  It is so one-sided that all it is a farming opportunity for Horde.  When I join the Random BG queue, many times I get this POS and lately I just /afk out and go to another character for another shot.  In my mind, this is the biggest "in your face" bug that I've seen for WoW yet.  Plus, they are just taking the stance that, "Yeah it sucks, but deal with it noob!"

[Nevermore]

Strand of the Ancients:
1.  Currently the Hangar doesn't work.

Maybe the ticket sat there for so long because they were confused by you telling them there was a hanger in Strand of the Ancients? 

[SurfD]

That is one thing that I have always wondered about.  I realise that WoW is probably billions and billions of lines of code, but how exactly do they manage to (quite often at that) fuck something up durring a major patch that from everything we can see, should never even have been touched by whatever it was they were changing in the codebase?  How do you get code taint that bad?

I mean, I remember once when they patched something in Burning Crusade, and for about 3 weeks after, Neffarian in Blackwing Lair was broken because he suddenly gave the ENTIRE raid Rage Bars i he did a Warrior Class call?!!?  How do you fuck something like that up?

[Sjofn]

So this is bugging the shit out of me, more than it probably should considering shit like the Strand of the Ancients bullshit above, but I have run into stupid grammar mistakes several times in my quest text and it's pissing me off. Mostly because the latest one I noticed was someone saying "could of." 

[Lantyssa]

Pshaw.  It's not like anyone reads quest text.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I don't think I've seen any bad quest text myself but a guildmember was in desolcase that got a quest called "breadcrumb" and said "I'm just a small placeholder but one day I hope to grow up into a full fledged breadcrumb: to feralas!"

[Typhon]

I don't think I've seen any bad quest text myself but a guildmember was in desolcase that got a quest called "breadcrumb" and said "I'm just a small placeholder but one day I hope to grow up into a full fledged breadcrumb: to feralas!"

you did that on 'purprose'!

[Sjofn]

I don't think I've seen any bad quest text myself but a guildmember was in desolcase that got a quest called "breadcrumb" and said "I'm just a small placeholder but one day I hope to grow up into a full fledged breadcrumb: to feralas!"

Yeah, Fordel saw a roadsign that said something along the lines of EXPLORER'S LEAGUE QUEST HUB --->

[Sheepherder]

That is one thing that I have always wondered about.  I realise that WoW is probably billions and billions of lines of code, but how exactly do they manage to (quite often at that) fuck something up durring a major patch that from everything we can see, should never even have been touched by whatever it was they were changing in the codebase?  How do you get code taint that bad?

I mean, I remember once when they patched something in Burning Crusade, and for about 3 weeks after, Neffarian in Blackwing Lair was broken because he suddenly gave the ENTIRE raid Rage Bars i he did a Warrior Class call?!!?  How do you fuck something like that up?

You mean the problem that programmers have spent hundreds of hours developing a plethora of SVN tools to solve?

Or is you misspelling Nef's name meant to be a subtle commentary on how easy it is to fuck things up in OO programming?

[SurfD]

Eh, I have always referred to him in the short form of Neff with an extra F.  It just carrys over whenever I try to spell his full name.

[Paelos]

Still no draw for me yet until they let me level my 80 or make a goblin. One more week!

[Dren]

Strand of the Ancients:
1.  Currently the Hangar doesn't work.

Maybe the ticket sat there for so long because they were confused by you telling them there was a hanger in Strand of the Ancients? 

Oh DOH!  I meant Isle of Conquest....I always get those two confused.

[Ratman_tf]

Pshaw.  It's not like anyone reads quest text.

For me, that's been nearly literally true since BC. I would much rather alt-tab out and look it up on wowhead than read the quest text even once.

[Cadaverine]

Pshaw.  It's not like anyone reads quest text.

For me, that's been nearly literally true since BC. I would much rather alt-tab out and look it up on wowhead than read the quest text even once.

Wowhead.  Feh.  It's all about Carbonite, or Quest Helper. No alt tabbing, no reading.  Just follow the arrow. 

Wowhead is for looking up how best to get achievements.

[Merusk]

Only Addon dependent newbs use either for quest content.  The default UI does a bangup job of actually showing you where mobs spawn (all locations) and includes the "run here" arrow these days.

[Azazel]

So this is bugging the shit out of me, more than it probably should considering shit like the Strand of the Ancients bullshit above, but I have run into stupid grammar mistakes several times in my quest text and it's pissing me off. Mostly because the latest one I noticed was someone saying "could of." 

I saw a small typo in a new quest the other day. In Duskwood. In the new Worgen quest hub near the cemetary across from Westfall.

Still no draw for me yet until they let me level my 80 or make a goblin. One more week!

I think it was a missing letter. I thought "this is th end of the universe". Then got on with my life.

You could do both! Race/faction swap!

Wowhead.  Feh.  It's all about Carbonite, or Quest Helper. No alt tabbing, no reading.  Just follow the arrow. 

Have they been updated for 4.whatever? I'm enjoying the NewOld World, but when I get back to BC, I just want to tear through it ASAP.
I liked the TomTom combo with the other quest helper addon (forgot the name). I could mark all three of the "go here, kill that" locations then do them in my own order, rather than follow their order. Also good for getting info about stuff that's unclear from the quest text.

[Ratman_tf]

Pshaw.  It's not like anyone reads quest text.

For me, that's been nearly literally true since BC. I would much rather alt-tab out and look it up on wowhead than read the quest text even once.

Wowhead.  Feh.  It's all about Carbonite, or Quest Helper. No alt tabbing, no reading.  Just follow the arrow. 

Wowhead is for looking up how best to get achievements.

The day Blizz integrated their own quest tracker was a real treat.

[Reg]

I use an addon called Lightheaded that pulls in the quest comments from WoWhead. I tried Carbonite but I don't like how it makes my minimap look shitty and really the Wowhead comments are all anyone could possibly need to complete the quests.

[DraconianOne]

Wowhead seems to be very out of whack currently - I keep finding lots of old quests listed that no longer exist and placeholder quests that were in Beta.  Going to give it a couple of weeks to get their database sorted out.

In other news, I got some bizarre whispers on one of my newbie alts last night while doing some of the Troll starter quests. First thing I thought was "Wow! That's really meta and very clever." I figured it was another character like Zuni, Dumass or Johnny Awesome who just whispered random things to you.

Then I realized it was actually another player. 

[Numtini]

I go the next step and use wow-pro's add on. It's basically questhelper with a set of pre-made optimized levelling guides built in--primarily Jame's. Unfortunately, not yet updated for the new zones.

[Nebu]

If WoW is such a great game, why are people in such a hurry to blow through the content?  I can see using a guide on the third or fourth time leveling an alt, but what's the point of rushing to the end game unless you really just don't enjoy the game itself?  

[K9]

We'll I'd say that most people here are probably on their nth alt by this stage.

That said, the new levelling experience is seriously tempting me to do 1-80 again with something new, and take the time to enjoy the ride.

[Malakili]

If WoW is such a great game, why are people in such a hurry to blow through the content?  I can see using a guide on the third or fourth time leveling an alt, but what's the point of rushing to the end game unless you really just don't enjoy the game itself?  

Because people don't play MMORPGs because they are fun, they play MMORPGs because there is constant positive reinforcement.  Guides just help that positive reinforcement come faster or at shorter intervals.

[DraconianOne]

If WoW is such a great game, why are people in such a hurry to blow through the content?  I can see using a guide on the third or fourth time leveling an alt, but what's the point of rushing to the end game unless you really just don't enjoy the game itself?  

If you go on holiday to a city you've never been to before, do you buy a guide book and a map and ask people who have been before if they've got any tips or suggestions of things to do or even avoid?  Or do you go blind and wonder around in case you see something interesting (but also run the risk of missing all the good stuff and only seeing the bad stuff?)

I used Jame's guides to level a lot from way back before TBC came out because
a) I was prepared for some quests by already having a Gynochromawotsit so wouldn't get fucked off by flying all the way back to UC to get one
b) it introduced me to quest areas I'd previously missed (like the boat in Faldir's Cove in Arathi)
c) stopped me getting pissed off by trying the tediously long winded quest chains which had you crossing continents like an asshole.

That shit wasn't fun. Using a guide meant I could do the fun things and feel like I was making progress.

They're less necessary now because the quest hubs are signposted, the flow is far better and most quest chains are contained in the same zone. That was noticeable from TBC onwards - it's like the quest designers looked at the quest guides and said "You know what? This is how we should do it!"

[Ratman_tf]

If WoW is such a great game, why are people in such a hurry to blow through the content?  I can see using a guide on the third or fourth time leveling an alt, but what's the point of rushing to the end game unless you really just don't enjoy the game itself?  

#1. Becuase there are levels besides Great and Awful. It's not a binary issue.
#2. Some people are ambivalent about the leveling game, but like the endgame.
#3. Some people like to optimize their questing. Speed running the content is their metagame.

I'm sure there are other reasons.

[Lantyssa]

I don't get it, either Nebu.  I'll turn to a guide if I'm stuck, but I like to actually explore the world I'm in.  In any game.

If you go on holiday to a city you've never been to before, do you buy a guide book and a map and ask people who have been before if they've got any tips or suggestions of things to do or even avoid?  Or do you go blind and wonder around in case you see something interesting (but also run the risk of missing all the good stuff and only seeing the bad stuff?)

A city in WoW is like a block in real life.  I've got the equivalent of the entire realms of five WoW's between work and home alone.  That's a terrible analogy.

[Typhon]

Here's a stab at why I might rush through quests and/or use a guide:

1) Quest as they are built right now are essentially reading a story and getting a reward (note that I haven't done any of the new quests).  There is no variability in the quest execution, there is no variability in reward.  If I care enough about the story, I want to get to the end of the story quickly - while I still care about the story.  If I only care about the reward, I want to rush through everything as quickly as possible.

1.1) The quest mechanics in MMOs are all pretty much the same.  Other than comedy value, they really offer nothing new.  It's hard to give a rats ass about someone dying when he/she/it will just respawn for the next person to ride the ride.  If there is no chance of loss, how can there be any pathos?  We're left with comedy and loot.  The Perilous Adventures of Mr Floppy I thought was one of their better quests - it was funny, and the joke didn't involve reading quest text but actually occurred via scripting.  If they added easter egg elements to quests that reward taking your time, maybe more people would take their time.  Current tech and/or implementation doesn't seem to support that.

2) Combat is completely disconnected from the quest story.  It doesn't add to story tension.  Failure or success do not alter the story (because you just restart if you fail).  That said, I find the combat, while not challenging, amusing enough in and of itself to be entertaining (for awhile).  The quests offer a directed way to do that (rather than just grinding), regardless of whether I find the quests amusing or not.  In this sense, Malakili is correct, I will optimize my experience + loot game while doing something I find entertaining (combat) just because I'm built that way, rather than it being something I find fun in and of itself.

3) Grouping with friends.  Taking the time to read quest text slows everything down.  Hunting around for a glowy slows everything down.  Grouping with friends while doing quests takes on an easter-egg-hunt type of feel - it's fun because you are cooperatively competing with each other.  Reading quest text slows that down.

edit: fixed crappy sentences
edit 2: tried to make sentences make sense

[Nebu]

#1. Becuase there are levels besides Great and Awful. It's not a binary issue.
#2. Some people are ambivalent about the leveling game, but like the endgame.
#3. Some people like to optimize their questing. Speed running the content is their metagame.

I'm sure there are other reasons.

1) Obvious answer is obvious.

2) The endgame is a leveling game.  Just of a different variety.

3) If that's your metagame, then why rely on the optimization of another person?  

I'm sure there are reasons as well.  That we can agree on.

It was really meant to be more of a rhetorical question.  I guess I have to be careful about stepping on toes considering the huge fanbase that WoW has.  I figured the "cracks starting to show" thread would be an appropriate place to express my lack of enthusiasm for WoW.  After 10+ years of playing MMO's I'm starting to appreciate Schild's assertion that MMO's just aren't very good as games go.

[Lucas]

Agreed with Nebu and Lantyssa; to each his own, sure, but I always want to feel immersed in the world I'm playing in (but yes, I'm mainly a roleplayer, so I'm biased)...Not reading quest and just rushing seems like an awful "mechanical" thing that has nothing to do with gaming.

[Dren]

Agreed with Nebu and Lantyssa; to each his own, sure, but I always want to feel immersed in the world I'm playing in (but yes, I'm mainly a roleplayer, so I'm biased)...Not reading quest and just rushing seems like an awful "mechanical" thing that has nothing to do with gaming.

I disagree, but I'm not going to jump on your wagon of "play like us or your wrong."  If you don't want to use an add-on, don't.  Those that do aren't doing any less "gaming" than you.  You are equating the RP aspects of the game as the entire game and it quite obviously is not.

[Lucas]

Hehe, no no no,anyone can play as they wish; like others, it was mostly a rhetorical observation. I guess WoW also succeeded because it's a "nexus" of lots of playing styles.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm just not sure why quest helpers are even relevant considering how the game has now changed. I'm pretty sure you could level to 80 now and never read a single bit of quest text, everything is on your map. Hell I even noticed some quests don't even bother telling you where to go beyond maybe a cardinal direction or "over there by the mountain" it's all on your map now by default.

[Nebu]

I disagree, but I'm not going to jump on your wagon of "play like us or your wrong."  If you don't want to use an add-on, don't.  Those that do aren't doing any less "gaming" than you.  You are equating the RP aspects of the game as the entire game and it quite obviously is not.

I don't care how other people "play".  I'm just wondering where we draw the line between "playing" and some Pavlovian response.  To me the addition of a quest guide is along the lines of "Follow the arrow to the X and we'll give you a treat".  If that's fun for people, great.  They'll have a plethora of gaming options available.  It just seems like a veiled attempt to turn the "game" into an exercise that a 3 year old can do.