Mechwarrior Online

[Ironwood]

Still no idea how they're going to manage The Clans.  Those guys are going to fuck everything on the board UP.

[Samprimary]

Still no idea how they're going to manage The Clans.  Those guys are going to fuck everything on the board UP.

Some would argue that the clans never were managed in the first place. It represents an age-old problem: what are your balance options wherein one side is represented as being unambiguously superior at war and technology, and has the guns, gear, and capability to curbstomp anyone in a straight fight?

I know lore-wise they sort of la-la'd the issue away by providing the inner sphere with an inexplicably unlikely miracle in that the ilKhan got randomly blowed up just by flat fucking chance all arvel crynyd style when the clans were essentially weeks from victorious dominion over everything

But in an MMO, that shit don't fly. What on earth is the game going to put in as a disincentive for playing with clan tech?

[Lantyssa]

They'll have to be massively outnumbered in any engagement.  Heat will have to mess screw them over (nice ERPPC, ERLL, ERetc you got there), and the range 'advantage' will have to continue being near worthless.

Make Clans anything but NPCs or special event battles will just be a headache.  I'm hoping there's even the option to select which tech you fight so I never have to see a Clanner in a normal match.

[Merusk]

Clan mechs count as 3 normal mechs in all engagements! 

Clan mechs get 1/10th cbill rewards because *handwave about clans only selling inter-clan*

[Samprimary]

problem with the heat problem solution is ..  is that clan ppc's are worth their heat - same damage as a gauss, 2 slots, 6 tons. Heat problems? Try matching that up with twin clan gauss at 12 tons each, maybe a clan ultra AC in there too it's allll soooooo much betterrrrr

[Fordel]

Just force all Clan forces to follow their strict pre-battle bidding and rules of engagement!  


The I.S. won through numbers and understanding what total war actually means. Neither are things your going to translate into any player vs player game, since being outnumbered is horseshit and both sides will already use every single possible advantage they can get. E-Bushido is overrated and all that.

[Samprimary]

Checking back on the old tabletop rules, the hellstar would be the most ungodly powerful mech - 60 damage direct fire alphas at any range with no heat problems, and no ammo.

In the ingame system, I'd do a 2 CERPPC 3 CGAUSS Daishi, slap an ECM on it because fuck you. 75 damage alphas. Only doesn't work if the pilot needs streaks/lasers to hit lights (possible, with present netcode). No deficiencies in armor or maneuverability to achieve this. Stabs molten holes in anything.

[5150]

Still no idea how they're going to manage The Clans.  Those guys are going to fuck everything on the board UP.

Probably a bit like LOTRO monster play. Random clan mech and no character advancement.

[Ironwood]

That'd work.

[Arthur_Parker]

They wouldn't be able to sell hero clan mechs or paint jobs.

[5150]

They wouldn't be able to sell hero clan mechs or paint jobs.

I wasn't expecting them to tbh since they took out repair and rearm as that was really the only way you could bring some semblance of balance to IS pilots having clan mech (huge repair bills).

That said I fully expect repair and rearm to return as I think removing it was not needed and we are quickly returning to assault mech online (more so once knock down goes back in and lights stop being as useful) - it also hurts the heavier hero mech sales as I only bought the hero Cataphract to give me a heavier cash cow than my Wang but could now just use my founder Atlas (I won't be buying either hero Dragon despite the cool paint jobs).

Given that salvage is just c-bills you're not going to be looting Clan tech anyway and even if you could its not compatible with IS chassis so you'd need a clan chassis (which you'd have to loot.....). If you let people play a clanner rather than the current pilots then 'everyone' will be clan

[Lantyssa]

There are plenty of IS die-hards.  As long as we have the option to drop against them or not, let people go Clan and fight amongst themselves.

[Falconeer]

Plus I know we've all being saying this since last year and it's getting boring, but the game will change drastically, and it will become what it is supposed to be, the moment they will implement a weight/class/BR restrictions for all matches.

I can't help but considering it kind of early beta until that point, and serious stuff after that point (which cannot come soon enough).

[Arthur_Parker]

I have no clue what they will do but the Clans being outnumbered is one option that makes sense to me.  I can't see them doing anything that would limit the income from Clan Wolf wannabes.

Garth Erlam replied to a piece on the latest patch here (horrible site).

I don't mean this to be a 'well too bad, sucker, we don't care about you!' but I would much, much, much rather have thousands of new players not 'taxed' for losing than allow 'awesome, I did so well I barely need any repairs!' moments.
And that really is what the system of rearm and repair is - a tax on your earnings from the match. If you don't lose much, sure it's great. But imagine yourself as a newer player who loves missiles and ballistics, but not lasers. You're literally being punished for not liking a specific weapons type.
And hell, I laser boat everything, and some of my mechs, even when torn to shreds, had virtually no costs associated. Saying that though, I did totally understand why the change was made.
Weapon choice should be about what you prefer using, not what 'costs least' - does that make sense?

Which reads to me that player retention was a major factor in the repair/rearm decision.  

Trials get full cbills and exp now (even if they can't spend the mech exp without having an owned version), the 25 match new players cbill bonus is important for that too.  Assuming new players constantly joining/dropping out I could see trial IS mechs staying but maybe no clan trial mechs appearing, IS number advantage would work there too.

Lights are terrible in conquest mode anyway which is a nice change even without knockdown/netcode fixes.

[Arthur_Parker]

There is also this.

After review, it seems that Large Lasers are working at a rate that is fairly well balanced. That being said, the Large PULSE Laser and ER-Large Lasers seem to be generating too much heat. I've found some new numbers that work fairly well and we'll be putting this into test after the holidays.

The PPC and ER-PPCs also seem to be generating a bit too much heat and like above, I've found new numbers that seem to work and have those going into test as well.

Because this is a very sensitive subject with you all, I am expecting these changes to appear early to mid January because I want to make sure that numerous Mech builds are thoroughly tested before releasing it to the Live servers.

I'll keep you updated as this progresses.

With improvements to machine guns/flamers in the pipeline plus above, it seems all weapons (excluding small pulse lasers and maybe lbx10) will be pretty useful useful in the next month or so which is a major improvement to weapon balance.

[Falconeer]

I forgot to say that I really like the post-patch PPC. The travel time was unbearable. Now it finally feels like a weapon that hits hard and hits right.

[Arthur_Parker]

Yeah, surprised this patch went so well, plus the new Stalker mech is an absolute murder machine.  So many weapon points.

[Lantyssa]

Glad to hear PPCs feel better, and that they're looking at their heat.  Hoping to get a chance to drop over the next four days and it'll be great to make builds which consider these weapons.

[5150]

I forgot to say that I really like the post-patch PPC. The travel time was unbearable. Now it finally feels like a weapon that hits hard and hits right.

Yeah, surprised this patch went so well, plus the new Stalker mech is an absolute murder machine.  So many weapon points.

Had a guy in a match last night with 6 ER PPC's on a Stalker, he shutdown every alpha strike (told him about chain fire but might have been intentional) but it did hit very very hard

[Ironwood]

Which reminds me :  How do you set chain fire ?  My cataphract is all or nothing because I can't find the key...

[Arthur_Parker]

Backspace.

[Merusk]

I forgot to tell you guys thanks for that when you last shared.  It's helped sooo much with heat on the Catapult I may buy a PPC chassis again. (They were always my favorite)

[5150]

I forgot to tell you guys thanks for that when you last shared.  It's helped sooo much with heat on the Catapult I may buy a PPC chassis again. (They were always my favorite)

Strangely I insisted on PPC mechs on the tabletop but haven't touched them yet in MWO as the minimum range thing is a deal breaker for me (yes I'll eventually get around to getting ER PPCs on something) because it was soo much easier (read: actually possible) to dictate range on the tabletop 

The Cat is too undergunned/armoured for my tastes once you put some big hitters on there, the Stalkers arrival finally gives me some options for PPC mounting (I dont like the 3 PPC Awesome for some reason and can never find the room on the large laser Awesome)

I just need them to add the Arrow IV now....... (which I suspect will never happen sadly)

[Merusk]

I get the hate for cats and PPCs in MWO. It's a brawler's paradise, particularly with the goddamn lights being so effective.  I still love them, though and dream of them being useful as more than LRM platorms someday.

[Arthur_Parker]

I'd avoid ER PPC's because of the crazy heat but for the standard PPC, the 90m minimum range damage drop off isn't immediate and total.  Or so I've heard, so you should still be doing half damage at 45m

[Samprimary]

I'm averaging 3 kills and 600 damage a game in my gaussapult, and I usually go for about 800-900 damage. The front line of brawlers has to be subverted or crushed entirely for me to get derailed on that front.

It works by sort of subverting the brawler mentality entirely, letting someone else go in and take the attention, and stick with an XL engine for maneuverability under the expectation you have no intention of brawling.

[Falconeer]

The gaussapult fries brawlers, and the new PPC will contribute even more to that, especially when they'll add the EMP effect. The game is nowhere near where it should be, but seems to me they are slowly going there. It was obviously too much of a "melee" game, it's turning into something else, thanks to Conquest mode, larger map coming, and more viable long range weapons.

If anything, look at some 8vs8 clan games, there's a lot of tactical positioning and waiting for an opponent team's mistake more than just charging and gunning.

[Arthur_Parker]

It's strange just how different Conquest mode is to Assault.  LRM's with tag will mess people up in Conquest, lights don't survive long alone.  

Assault is the exact opposite, with people hugging cover, LRM's being near useless and most games decided by whichever team still has lights alive after the light battle.

[Merusk]

Holy shit is the Gaussapult OP. Two games, 6 kills.  Compared to my usual "well, I got a few assists" that's awesome.

[calapine]

It's strange just how different Conquest mode is to Assault.  LRM's with tag will mess people up in Conquest, lights don't survive long alone. 

Assault is the exact opposite, with people hugging cover, LRM's being near useless and most games decided by whichever team still has lights alive after the light battle.

That's mostly due to PUGs being stupid though. It's just a regular death-match as the resource collection is far too slow. So far all my matches were decided by either wiping out the entire team or 7 of 8 than capping all points.

[Arthur_Parker]

I've found not having a base and the desire to capture points in areas of the map you wouldn't normal visit leads to conquest matches unfolding very differently, even in 8 man teams.  But yeah most conquest wins are down to one team being wiped out at the moment, which I expect will change.

Holy shit is the Gaussapult OP. Two games, 6 kills.  Compared to my usual "well, I got a few assists" that's awesome.

In that case you'd probably like the Cataphract 4X, maybe the 3D too, also pretty much any Atlas with 2 Large lasers and a single Gauss might suit you.

[Merusk]

I was actually thinking about picking up a Cata.  I've run in to a few and gotten owned, but I didn't think they could fit 4x gauss.

So atlas with 1x gauss and 2 lasers hits as hard?  I hate heat management so I'm all about no heat or sustained damage w/ chainfire.

This game needs a fitting too to play with shit before you buy it, like Eve.

Also: I figured out it's whatever they're doing with the antialiasing that's destroying my video driver.  Turned it off and no more crashes.

[ZenScrotum]

Mechwarrior Online is a joke....

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/   <---This is the best iteration of Mechwarrior/Battletech that has existed on PC.

[Arthur_Parker]

Merusk both the Cataphract 4X and 3D can run dual gauss, 4x in both arms compared to catapult torso mounts, 3D in right arm and right torso, though can have jump jets on that too.  Both also have the tonnage for extra weapons.  An Atlas could hit harder than dual gauss it's just getting used to the different fire rates/aiming.


ZenScrotum, I tried living legends and didn't like it.

[Kitsune]

I fired up the trial Stalker tonight just to see how it handled and if I liked the cockpit.  Wound up in my first conquest game, which I managed to lose, but only because I was too busy murdering the other team with my trial mech to bother with the capture points.  Racked up three kills, all on assaults and heavies, got assists on four more.  I've decided that I do like Stalkers, oh yes.  And despite the loss I still came out with more exp than anyone on the winning team, on account of having killed them all.  But I was none too pleased with the 120k in cash.  That's definitely a drop on my average match income from before this last patch, even after taking repairs into account.