SWTOR

[tazelbain]

Crippling a useful function isn't the way I'd choose generate community in an MMO.

[luckton]

Yep, I don't want cross-server LFD in SWTOR

If they LAUNCH with LFD on just a single shard, they can get away with this.  If they do like Rift and do it post launch, they'll end up doing what Rift did and eventually cross-server it.  Mostly because at the time Rift launched it, the servers had already fragmented and popularity sank, resulting in LFD not really working as one would hope it would. 

I agree that LFD works, and if they can keep it single-shard, so much the better for community and that jazz.  If it sinks though, IMO, game comes before community.  Cross-server it if it's needed.

EDIT: As an afterthought, considering that your ratio of possible healers/tanks to DPS is much narrower compared to WoW, it really does have a good chance of working.  But then I'm assuming that everyone that plays a game and picks, say, the healer role actually knows how to heal 

[Sjofn]

Crossserver is fine, especially if they do it the way WoW currently does it, where they try to find you people on your server first, then fill in with losers from elsewhere. People on smaller servers or who play during off hours shouldn't have to languish forever just because some people still insist the only way to build a sense of community on a server is to hobble something useful.

[fuser]

I wouldn't mind LFD if it had the cross realm party at launch.

At least then when you play with people on other servers you can add them to your friends and play again.

[Evildrider]

I wouldn't mind LFD if it had the cross realm party at launch.

At least then when you play with people on other servers you can add them to your friends and play again.

Yeah but Bioware isn't going to have RealID.   

[Paelos]

I'm not convinced that LFD cross server solves the problem of queue times without bringing in the gigantic unchecked anonymous dude from somewhere else problem.

Turning people into bots ruins things the moment they get remotely difficult.

[ezrast]

The problems people have with cross-server instance queues aren't problems with cross-server instance queues, though. They're problems with segregated, isolated servers. Those have always stopped you from playing with people you want to play with; the walls are just a lot more obvious now that they're having little LFD-shaped holes hammered in them. Server isolation is one of the things I'm surprised MMO developers and players are still reifying, honestly.

[Kirth]

The problems people have with cross-server instance queues aren't problems with cross-server instance queues, though. They're problems with segregated, isolated servers. Those have always stopped you from playing with people you want to play with; the walls are just a lot more obvious now that they're having little LFD-shaped holes hammered in them. Server isolation is one of the things I'm surprised MMO developers and players are still reifying, honestly.

I agree, I'm playing eq2 right now and when i zone into great divide there are 2 or 3 instances of it. I can switch between them if i desire, if i group with someone we can port to either instance. I don't see why there just cant be 20-30 versions of the zone.

[Sky]

You think reserving names is bad when you only have a few thousand people per server, heh...

[Amaron]

I think there are better solutions than just tossing out LFD.   You could disable it during a populated server's peak time for instance.   Or have "weekly server community dungeon" or something.   Considering the subs that LFD pulled into WoW though I think this argument is moot.

[ezrast]

I'd keep separate servers but allow you to invite your friends into your server to hang out with you. Everyone would keep a "home" server where they would typically stay when soloing and milling around town, so you could still build communities, but there would be nothing stopping you from jumping into another server for the day (and getting an @SomeOtherServer tag added to your name, I guess).

Ideally you could also freely switch home servers once a week or something because $25 for that is robbery, but that's a whole other derail I think.

[Kirth]

I'd keep separate servers but allow you to invite your friends into your server to hang out with you. Everyone would keep a "home" server where they would typically stay when soloing and milling around town, so you could still build communities, but there would be nothing stopping you from jumping into another server for the day (and getting an @SomeOtherServer tag added to your name, I guess).

Ideally you could also freely switch home servers once a week or something because $25 for that is robbery, but that's a whole other derail I think.

Rift lets you server xfer for free.

[Mrbloodworth]

Is LFD ( ALA WOW ) even applicable to SWTOR game play?

[Sky]

I think if it prioritized players from your server first, that makes a lot of sense. That way those worried about the integrity of community can be mollified and those who just want to run through the goddamned instance can do so, even if it means having a couple zomg stranger dangers.

As for the jackoffs who think spamming the LFG chat channel is a good idea, throw 'em in the tar pit.

[Malakili]

Is LFD ( ALA WOW ) even applicable to SWTOR game play?

Why not? There are dungeons, there is the trinity, thats pretty much all the WoW LFD system requires.

[Mrbloodworth]

I dunno, I ask because it seems that SWOTR dungeons are much more cooperative experiences, mostly the dialog and dice roll on choices.

Is VOIP built into the client?

[Sky]

I think it's more about operations. While it might not be tough to find one other person to run instances with, if you count companions, as far as I know companions aren't available for operations (raids).

And even with smaller numbers for instances, I'd still prefer to select my role and instance from a menu and auto-pop into it, return back to where I was soloing previously ala Rift. The first time I finished IT and the exit portal put me right back into my questing area, it was a nice QoL feature. I'm sure you can find a thread on the official board about how making everyone run to the instance builds community or something.

[Furiously]

As for the jackoffs who think spamming the LFG chat channel is a good idea, throw 'em in the tar pit.

I think you mean sarlacc pit.

[FieryBalrog]

EDIT: As an afterthought, considering that your ratio of possible healers/tanks to DPS is much narrower compared to WoW, it really does have a good chance of working.  

The tank and healing ACs all have DPS specs, just like WoW.

Not sure what's different here.

Rift lets you server xfer for free.

I can confidently predict SWTOR won't.

[Tyrnan]

EDIT: As an afterthought, considering that your ratio of possible healers/tanks to DPS is much narrower compared to WoW, it really does have a good chance of working.  

The tank and healing ACs all have DPS specs, just like WoW.

Not sure what's different here.

But if you use a DPS spec on those ACs will you still be a viable healer/tank? Since dual specs won't be in for launch (unless I missed an update where they changed their minds on that?) I can see where it might be an issue. I seem to remember them saying that respecs would be cheap and easy to do but I assume you'll still need to go visit an NPC somewhere and re-choose all your talents so it's not something I'd want to have to do repeatedly.

Honestly, between dual specs in WoW and the role system in Rift their insistence that something like that won't be needed is puzzling but I guess I'll wait and see if the talent tress (or whatever they're calling them) are so awesome you only need 1 spec.

[Nebu]

Honestly, between dual specs in WoW and the role system in Rift their insistence that something like that won't be needed is puzzling but I guess I'll wait and see if the talent tress (or whatever they're calling them) are so awesome you only need 1 spec.

Then there's the question of pvp and how that will effect spec as well.  I think Rift spoiled me by allowing me to spec 5 different ways and use them interchangeably on the fly.

[koro]

I've been Forum Warrioring this on the TOR boards a bit, but I think for TOR's purposes, where you have fewer discrete instanced dungeons and more "soft" phased dungeons for single missions, a more robust City of Heroes-style /who and flagging system would do wonders for getting groups together to do pretty much any degree of content in the game if a strictly automated Dungeon Finder-style system is out of the question. A system which, from what statements from Bioware reps I've seen quoted elsewhere, pretty much is.

[Nevermore]

Actually, I found the best tool for getting groups in CoX was to take advantage of the fact that people could create their own global channels, complete with mod privileges and the ability to silence/kick.  I know the Virtue server had a very well populated PvE looking for group channel on both hero and villain sides and a number of RP channels.  What really helped was everyone has a global chat handle so once you join a channel, you're joined on all your characters.  You could even use global chat to send messages across servers and the global channels where also not server dependent.  In other words, a better form of RealID without the Blizzard retardery.

[koro]

True, CoX's global channels were a very powerful tool, though even if you opted to not use one (or, like me, hit the limit of active channels), the /who system they had was very good at finding you groups.

[Sky]

fewer discrete instanced dungeons and more "soft" phased dungeons for single missions,

I'm talking about flashpoints and operations. The mission instances are supposed to be pretty short and mostly solo/duo-able.

[luckton]

I think people are also forgetting that most if not all flashpoints can be duo'ed with you a friend thanks to companions. 

Also, the official 'pretty and post-edited' version of the Eternity Vault walkthrough is up on swtor.com.  Not anything different than what we saw of the live walthrough at Gamescon, but it does seem the people playing know how to play somewhat better than the live one.

[Sky]

Yeah, I got a chuckle out of the non-wipe version...though they still almost wiped at the very last fifteen seconds or so. Still a few  moments like AEs going off against single mobs, including the powertech being a bit slow on the draw and AE flaming a dead guy...

I did like how it showed the name of the healer on the little flying heal number (what's the official name for the little flying numbers?). I don't think I've seen that before.

[eldaec]

(what's the official name for the little flying numbers?)

Pretty sure it's 'flying numbers'.

[luckton]

What is 'Scrolling Combat Text", Alex?

[Threash]

I dunno, I ask because it seems that SWOTR dungeons are much more cooperative experiences, mostly the dialog and dice roll on choices.

Is VOIP built into the client?

It's WoW with voice acting, i think after 275 pages this might have sunk in.

[eldaec]

Scrolling combat text is something else - it's what you used to get in the chat window during combat before we had flying numbers.

[koro]

fewer discrete instanced dungeons and more "soft" phased dungeons for single missions,

I'm talking about flashpoints and operations. The mission instances are supposed to be pretty short and mostly solo/duo-able.

A non-trivial amount of content is full-group missions that send you into a normal phased mission area, rather than a dungeon-like instance. Being able to flag LFG for those specific missions would be very nice.

Err, I should note that I meant for the non-raid end-game stuff, and that it's mostly hearsay.

[Ingmar]

My expectation is that means 'duoable with companions'.

[Evildrider]

Is VOIP built into the client?

No it isn't, and I don't think they need to really worry about it.  The only game with built-in VOIP that I've ever seen used was in DDO.  Everyone else just uses vent or its equivalent.

[Sjofn]

Yeah, I got a chuckle out of the non-wipe version...though they still almost wiped at the very last fifteen seconds or so. Still a few  moments like AEs going off against single mobs, including the powertech being a bit slow on the draw and AE flaming a dead guy...

I did like how it showed the name of the healer on the little flying heal number (what's the official name for the little flying numbers?). I don't think I've seen that before.

You can turn on names in the scrolling text in WoW. I've had people notice I am awesome at healing in BGs before because of it. 


As for free server transfers in Rift, it's not completely unfettered, right? Like you and your friends can agree to all transfer to Backwater Server A, but can't go to Super Populated Server B? Or did I dream that?