So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)

[Hammond]

I have always had a decent diet with extremely good cholesterol count. (I get checked yearly) My problem is my blood pressure was getting high due to my sedate lifestyle coupled with being over weight. Considering every male on both my parents sides of my family have had heart attacks its one of those things you keep track of :).

[K9]

Thing about free weights though, your body takes a long time to see results. I was chatting about this with my coworker who keeps flirting with the idea. We were talking about why weights take so long to start seeing muscle development. Leaving diet aside, which is the bulk of it really, weights take forever because you can only break down your body so often. For myself, I rest the body part I workout for at least 5 days. Pointing this out to my buddy, doing back once a week means I really only lift back 4 times a month, the rest of that time is letting it repair the muscle fibers. In that time, you have to feed it the stuff if needs which also means a change in diet. People view that as too much work for to gradual a result. However, the results stick around a lot longer and the changes to diet stay (or at least should be remembered) because you re-learned what to eat and created a new habit.

You have to really commit to weight training because the transformation comes gradually rather than the promise of shedding pounds or growing muscles in a few weeks with "<trendy exercise routine of the month>." It's a psychological thing with people. That is why companies are looking for the miracle pill that takes weight off without doing a thing.

I suspect that one difference between running and lifting is that your progress isn't distributed the same. Most people when they start lifting will see very rapid improvements, just from basic conditioning. It wouldn't be unreasonable to expect a complete novice to double their max lifts in their first month of lifting. I doubt you would expect a complete novice runner to do the equivalent (either double a distance, or halve the time to run the same distance). However, I think once you get into running your gains progress more steadily, whereas in lifting you tend to hit some really severe plateaus. This my hunch would be that improvement in running is more of an S-Curve, whereas lifting is a case of continually diminishing returns. Obviously it varies hugely within each discipline, a powerlifter might expect to see a stead 5kg improvement on their lift every month, whereas an olympic lifter might be happy with a 1kg improvement over 6 weeks, but in general I think this is true.

Perhaps there is a perspective difference too though; there are better known benchmarks for things like running, such as the ability to run 5K, 10K, a half marathon, or a full one. This doesn't translate so well into lifting. Being able to deadlift 180kg is fairly average for someone of my build in the grand scheme of things, but it would be incredible for a 5'4" woman let's say. Lifting is a lot more relative.

[K9]

Also, I think we can all agree. Fuck these guys

[MrHat]

Perhaps there is a perspective difference too though; there are better known benchmarks for things like running, such as the ability to run 5K, 10K, a half marathon, or a full one. This doesn't translate so well into lifting. Being able to deadlift 180kg is fairly average for someone of my build in the grand scheme of things, but it would be incredible for a 5'4" woman let's say. Lifting is a lot more relative.

I always thought the 1x, 1.4x of body weight were benchmarks?

[01101010]

Perhaps there is a perspective difference too though; there are better known benchmarks for things like running, such as the ability to run 5K, 10K, a half marathon, or a full one. This doesn't translate so well into lifting. Being able to deadlift 180kg is fairly average for someone of my build in the grand scheme of things, but it would be incredible for a 5'4" woman let's say. Lifting is a lot more relative.

I always thought the 1x, 1.4x of body weight were benchmarks?

I never go with benchmarks when it comes to weights. Then again, I am not in competition with anyone or even myself. If I get a great workout using 40lb dumbbells for chest, then that is what I am using till the reps get too high to make it timely to workout. I go with how I feel, not the number on the plates. YMMV.

[K9]

Perhaps there is a perspective difference too though; there are better known benchmarks for things like running, such as the ability to run 5K, 10K, a half marathon, or a full one. This doesn't translate so well into lifting. Being able to deadlift 180kg is fairly average for someone of my build in the grand scheme of things, but it would be incredible for a 5'4" woman let's say. Lifting is a lot more relative.

I always thought the 1x, 1.4x of body weight were benchmarks?

I'm not saying there aren't benchmarks, just that in wider society if I tell someone I ran a 10K they'll be far more likely to be able to relate to that than if I tell them I did a bodyweight hangclean, or OHP 70kg. Or at least I think so, and a disproportionate number of people around me lift.

If anyone wants to go ahead and start organising charity lifting events as an alternative to 5k and 10ks I'd be all for that too 

[MrHat]

Perhaps there is a perspective difference too though; there are better known benchmarks for things like running, such as the ability to run 5K, 10K, a half marathon, or a full one. This doesn't translate so well into lifting. Being able to deadlift 180kg is fairly average for someone of my build in the grand scheme of things, but it would be incredible for a 5'4" woman let's say. Lifting is a lot more relative.

I always thought the 1x, 1.4x of body weight were benchmarks?

I'm not saying there aren't benchmarks, just that in wider society if I tell someone I ran a 10K they'll be far more likely to be able to relate to that than if I tell them I did a bodyweight hangclean, or OHP 70kg. Or at least I think so, and a disproportionate number of people around me lift.

If anyone wants to go ahead and start organising charity lifting events as an alternative to 5k and 10ks I'd be all for that too 

Lift for the Cure?

[Cyrrex]

The benchmarks are really useful for people doing strength training and/or powerlifting, but it means much less to an intermediate or advanced bodybuilder.  It better helps you answer the question of "am I relatively strong", but it also gives you a clue as to what kinds of training you should be considering for strength training.  For example, assuming your goal is to get strong for any reason, you can very easily stick to linear periodization programs such as Starting Strength or Stronglifts (any good 3x5 or 5x5 program that makes you add weight every session) if you do not come close to meeting the usual ratios.    Once you get closer to the magical ratios - 1.5x bodyweight for bench, 2x BW for squat and 2.5x BW for deadlifts are numbers that are often used for people who are becoming "advanced" - then you will likely begin hitting serious plateaus and those kinds of linear programs will no longer work for you.  Every person is different, of course, and there are other factors involved (diet), but sometimes these generalizations are helpful.

When I exercise it's because heart disease runs in my family, I don't have a great respiratory system as-is, and cardiopulmonary disorder is my second-greatest fear in life. I don't have weight or body image issues but I really, really don't want to have a heart attack at forty so I focus mostly on cardio (feel free to educate me on why "cardio = heart health" is a misconception, if applicable). Running was simply my "default" form of cardio since it takes no equipment, it can be done anywhere, and I saw my parents doing it growing up (of course, I also saw them suffer through myriad knee and foot issues over the years...).

You are probably more or less doing what is best for your particular goals (assuming your diet is square), so it works for me.

[DraconianOne]

Couldn't agree more though that you exercise for your goals.  That's what it's all about.

I remember when people used to do exercise simply because they enjoyed it.

[ezrast]

Think you're on the wrong forum for that.

[Soln]

Someone give me some suggestions for new shoes.  I've been using Brooks Ghost (3) and been very happy with them, but I'd like some new ideas.  I run on pavement and track.  Danku.

[Nebu]

Someone give me some suggestions for new shoes.  I've been using Brooks Ghost (3) and been very happy with them, but I'd like some new ideas.  I run on pavement and track.  Danku.

That's what I use.  My second choice are Asics Gel Nimbus.  They have better cushioning for pavement if you're a neutral runner.

[JWIV]

Years ago I ran in Brooks Defyance and they were okay.   I switched later to Newtons and I really liked those, and would probably be what I would still run in if I bothered with shoes. I really remain happy with my Xeroshoes if you want to go crazy minimalist.

[DraconianOne]

Someone give me some suggestions for new shoes.  I've been using Brooks Ghost (3) and been very happy with them, but I'd like some new ideas.  I run on pavement and track.  Danku.

What do you mean by track? Running track or trail?

[Miguel]

I suspect that one difference between running and lifting is that your progress isn't distributed the same. Most people when they start lifting will see very rapid improvements, just from basic conditioning.

I could have sworn I read some time ago:  when you start lifting (or stressing your skeletomuscular system via other means), a lot of the initial development is in recruiting your existing muscle mass to "help out" in sustaining the load(s).  In other words, your body adapts by engaging the full existing muscle mass which is why the initial gains are so high/so rapid.  Is this true?  What is this effect called?

One other general question:  I've long battled a very high difference in strength between the right and left sides of my body.  As a hockey player of many years, I always struggled to apply skating and stick handling techniques when doing so involved the left side of my body (e.g. turning left, left-side full stops, crossing over with my left foot).  I can readily see this in the gym by working each side individually:  if I do squats or sitting leg presses "one-legged", I can lift around 30-40% more resistance with my right side than my left.  This is true for both arms and legs.

I always imagined this was an issue with my brain, as I am REALLY right handed...to the point I can't even right legibly with my left hand.  I can press a 50-lb free barbell with my right hand, and can barely lift it with left.  How would I go about correcting this, if it's even possible?  Would it be better to completely isolate my left side and work it harder until it matches my right side?  Or is there some other/better way?

[proudft]

Have you considered a career in arm wrestling?   

Barbells will even it out eventually.

[Soln]

Someone give me some suggestions for new shoes.  I've been using Brooks Ghost (3) and been very happy with them, but I'd like some new ideas.  I run on pavement and track.  Danku.

What do you mean by track? Running track or trail?

Running track.  And thanks for the ideas.  I will probably stick with Ghost. 

I had hoped to try my first half marathon in 2 weeks, but a family vacation got in the way, so I probably won't be ready now till Sept.  I'll break in the new shoes at least.

[01101010]

I could have sworn I read some time ago:  when you start lifting (or stressing your skeletomuscular system via other means), a lot of the initial development is in recruiting your existing muscle mass to "help out" in sustaining the load(s).  In other words, your body adapts by engaging the full existing muscle mass which is why the initial gains are so high/so rapid.  Is this true?  What is this effect called?

One other general question:  I've long battled a very high difference in strength between the right and left sides of my body.  As a hockey player of many years, I always struggled to apply skating and stick handling techniques when doing so involved the left side of my body (e.g. turning left, left-side full stops, crossing over with my left foot).  I can readily see this in the gym by working each side individually:  if I do squats or sitting leg presses "one-legged", I can lift around 30-40% more resistance with my right side than my left.  This is true for both arms and legs.

I always imagined this was an issue with my brain, as I am REALLY right handed...to the point I can't even right legibly with my left hand.  I can press a 50-lb free barbell with my right hand, and can barely lift it with left.  How would I go about correcting this, if it's even possible?  Would it be better to completely isolate my left side and work it harder until it matches my right side?  Or is there some other/better way?

Mostly true. When you first start lifting, you do work a lot more of your body initially. Those stabilizer muscles, along with the main load muscles are all getting torn down and rebuilt. The stabilizers will eventually even out and you'll be concentrating on the load muscles.

As for the weak-side/strong-side concern. Usually, right handed people tend to have a stronger left leg and vice-versa for lefties. I asked my D.O. I was seeing. She suggested the quicker (which will still take a few months) is to use dumbbells and always start with your weaker side if doing an isolation-type exercise (e.g., hammer curls). Do the reps with the weak side, then do the same amount with the stronger side, then stop - even if you can do more with the stronger side. Using barbells will only reinforce the stronger side as it will constantly makeup the difference from the weaker side. IMHO, do a 6-8 week rotation using dumbbells where ever you can (i.e., bench press/incline, curls, rows, camel kickbacks, side raises, military presses, lunges, cable rows... etc). Then 4 weeks with nothing but barbells, then back for 6 more weeks. Then check the results.

[DraconianOne]

Someone give me some suggestions for new shoes.  I've been using Brooks Ghost (3) and been very happy with them, but I'd like some new ideas.  I run on pavement and track.  Danku.

What do you mean by track? Running track or trail?

Running track.  And thanks for the ideas.  I will probably stick with Ghost. 

I had hoped to try my first half marathon in 2 weeks, but a family vacation got in the way, so I probably won't be ready now till Sept.  I'll break in the new shoes at least.

If you're happy with the Ghost, stick to them - but remember that new models can have subtle changes so try them and find what's comfortable for you. I use Brooks as well for both road and trail and have done for years but I like the Asics Nimbus too, Mizuno Wave Ascend (trail) and have been through several pairs of Inov-8 fell running shoes. Going to try and blag a pair of Salomon trail shoes when I'm back running as have heard very good things about them.

Good luck with the half.

[Chimpy]

Well, I have started my 5k training program and my first regular sessions with the personal trainer start next week.

I actually did a lot better in my little interval workout (1 min jog/90sec walk) this evening than I expected going into it.

If you are looking for a good free running/cycling tracking app for your phone I am really liking Runkeeper. Its GPS mapping of route seems to be pretty good and it has some built in training programs (like the beginner 5k one I am using) which the voice actually tells you when you are at your interval/finish marks if it is either time or distance.

Oh, also weighed in at 211 this morning when I got up. Lowest I have been since before Clinton got re-elected. Shooting for 200 by the time I run the 5k in September.

[Miguel]

As for the weak-side/strong-side concern. Usually, right handed people tend to have a stronger left leg and vice-versa for lefties. I asked my D.O. I was seeing. She suggested the quicker (which will still take a few months) is to use dumbbells and always start with your weaker side if doing an isolation-type exercise (e.g., hammer curls). Do the reps with the weak side, then do the same amount with the stronger side, then stop - even if you can do more with the stronger side. Using barbells will only reinforce the stronger side as it will constantly makeup the difference from the weaker side. IMHO, do a 6-8 week rotation using dumbbells where ever you can (i.e., bench press/incline, curls, rows, camel kickbacks, side raises, military presses, lunges, cable rows... etc). Then 4 weeks with nothing but barbells, then back for 6 more weeks. Then check the results.

Could an alternate be:  rather than doing a 15 rep, 100lb bench press with a regular bar (that is gripped with both hands), I do the same with two, 50lb barbells?  Or just keep doing reps until my left side fails and stop the right side at the same time?

After you mentioned it, if I think about it, I think my right side is doing more work against a common bar and probably compensating for my left side.  Two independent weights would prevent that from happening.

[Nebu]

Oh, also weighed in at 211 this morning when I got up. Lowest I have been since before Clinton got re-elected. Shooting for 200 by the time I run the 5k in September.

Grats!  Good luck with the road training.  Soon you'll be in the 1xx again!

[Cyrrex]

I suspect that one difference between running and lifting is that your progress isn't distributed the same. Most people when they start lifting will see very rapid improvements, just from basic conditioning.

I could have sworn I read some time ago:  when you start lifting (or stressing your skeletomuscular system via other means), a lot of the initial development is in recruiting your existing muscle mass to "help out" in sustaining the load(s).  In other words, your body adapts by engaging the full existing muscle mass which is why the initial gains are so high/so rapid.  Is this true?  What is this effect called?

One other general question:  I've long battled a very high difference in strength between the right and left sides of my body.  As a hockey player of many years, I always struggled to apply skating and stick handling techniques when doing so involved the left side of my body (e.g. turning left, left-side full stops, crossing over with my left foot).  I can readily see this in the gym by working each side individually:  if I do squats or sitting leg presses "one-legged", I can lift around 30-40% more resistance with my right side than my left.  This is true for both arms and legs.

I always imagined this was an issue with my brain, as I am REALLY right handed...to the point I can't even right legibly with my left hand.  I can press a 50-lb free barbell with my right hand, and can barely lift it with left.  How would I go about correcting this, if it's even possible?  Would it be better to completely isolate my left side and work it harder until it matches my right side?  Or is there some other/better way?

As for the first part, this is quite true.  It is more pronounced for a beginner simply because that person's neurological system is not built up for your muscles working in concert.  It is still true of advanced lifters as well, though the since you have less potential left to tap and plateaus to deal with, it isn't quite as obvious.  This is the difference between training a movement as opposed to simply building muscle.  And even intermediate and advanced lifters will begin to understand that what they have been doing for years and years is actually STILL failing to recruit all available muscles.  By a long shot.

As an example, this is my literal evolution over the past several years as regards to something as mechanically simple (not!) as the squat, which it turns out is not as intuitive as one might think:

Stage 1:  Put bar on back.  Let it push my ass down until it looks like I am in shitting position.  Stand up.  This stage may last for years, and some people never get out of it.
Stage 2:  Fuck, okay, I guess I better make sure I go down to at least parallel, even though it sucks.  And should probably make sure I am looking straight forward.  If you get this far, you are doing better than most.
Stage 3:  Okay, my foot positioning is all wrong for my body's natural levers (i.e. there is no one correct foot position for all people).  Turns out my body wants to have a wider stance and I can recruit more muscles by spreading the floor.
Stage 4:  Oh my God, I thought I was fully using my core in my lifts, but I totally haven't been.  Fuck, not even close!  Need to keep tight all the way through!
Stage 5:  Shit, even just keeping tight in the core isn't enough...I need to fill my core (not my diaphragm) with air and keep it there somehow.
Stage 6:  What, I need to keep my elbows under the bar and pull the bar down into my shelf as hard as I can?  This is getting complicated.
Stage 7:  Now you're teling me I need to keep my upper back as tight as possible?
Stage 8:  (this is where I am right now) I should be driving my neck back into the bar?  Gods.

The squat is not only a compoud lift, it is a true total body lift.  What I once thought was a muscular plateau was more of a technique and neurological one...it was when I went from Stage 3 to Stage 4 that I busted through it (and I mean practically instantly).  I am now working on perfecting the last four items on this list, and I have no doubt I will be stuck at my current plateau until I have this down to an unconscious habit.  And I already know what Stage 9 is - I have to work on getting my glutes more involved in the lift somehow.  But it is more than my brain can deal with right now.  Also, I am learning that similar things can be applied to the bench press, and there is a lot more involved in it than I ever thought possible.

[Cyrrex]

Regarding left/right imbalance - I have a pretty significant one as well and we've been over it fairly extensively in this thread somewhere.  I used to stress over it a great deal.  I guess I don't anymore. 

I think you have to ask yourself why it matters to you, because the cure could end up being worse than the problem.  You can fix the imbalance using some of the methods above, but that is by making your right arm weaker than it is now, and that seems counterproductive to me.  And it isn't like once you have balance that way that it will remain...as soon as you increase the weights again, the muscle memory from your right arm is going to more than likely make it stronger once again compared to the left.

My opinion is that unless it is creating an aesthetic issue, just ignore it.  The reason I stressed as much as I did was because it was holding me back in  DB Shoulder Presses...which is just silly when you think about it.  Because I should be using Barbells to increase the strength of those muscles on BOTH sides, instead of floundering around for the sake of balance.

[01101010]

As for the weak-side/strong-side concern. Usually, right handed people tend to have a stronger left leg and vice-versa for lefties. I asked my D.O. I was seeing. She suggested the quicker (which will still take a few months) is to use dumbbells and always start with your weaker side if doing an isolation-type exercise (e.g., hammer curls). Do the reps with the weak side, then do the same amount with the stronger side, then stop - even if you can do more with the stronger side. Using barbells will only reinforce the stronger side as it will constantly makeup the difference from the weaker side. IMHO, do a 6-8 week rotation using dumbbells where ever you can (i.e., bench press/incline, curls, rows, camel kickbacks, side raises, military presses, lunges, cable rows... etc). Then 4 weeks with nothing but barbells, then back for 6 more weeks. Then check the results.

Could an alternate be:  rather than doing a 15 rep, 100lb bench press with a regular bar (that is gripped with both hands), I do the same with two, 50lb barbells?  Or just keep doing reps until my left side fails and stop the right side at the same time?

After you mentioned it, if I think about it, I think my right side is doing more work against a common bar and probably compensating for my left side.  Two independent weights would prevent that from happening.

Just keep in mind that 2 dumbbells have a different effect that a single barbell at even weight between the two. In other words 100 barbell =/= 2x 50lb dumbbells since you have different stabilizer muscles working with the different weights. Dumbbells will take more effort given they are less stable. That said, start with a light weight and get the form down - try 20-30lbs at first to get a feel for the exercise. Then jump to the 40s and see how it feels. Control and form are priority - you can cheat a lot more with a barbell; dumbbells are unforgiving since each arm can sway in any direction. Have a target rep range and after you get the feel and control of the form down, find the weight that lets you hit that rep range.

One more tip: for dumbbells on any pressing exercise, make every effort to pinch your shoulder blades together while you are doing these exercises. It'll save your shoulder joints a ton of stress and put more emphasis on the muscle you are working on. Since getting back into weights, and being almost 40 and an ex-volleyball player with a bad hitting shoulder, this works wonders. It does take practice though because it feels odd, especially on a bench, until you build it into your form.

[K9]

15 reps is too many, from it down to eight unless you're doing bodyweight work.

[Soln]

Weird question: how does one qualify for certain marathons like Boston?   Is there some kind of certification one gets after registering for a marathon, or is there an association that tracks all your runs?  Thanks.

[Nebu]

Weird question: how does one qualify for certain marathons like Boston?   Is there some kind of certification one gets after registering for a marathon, or is there an association that tracks all your runs?  Thanks.

When I qualified for Boston, I had to run a sub 3 hour time.  I'm not sure if that has changed.

You can find them HERE

Age Group   Men                           Women
18-34    3hrs 05min 00sec    3hrs 35min 00sec
35-39    3hrs 10min 00sec    3hrs 40min 00sec
40-44    3hrs 15min 00sec    3hrs 45min 00sec
45-49    3hrs 25min 00sec    3hrs 55min 00sec
50-54    3hrs 30min 00sec    4hrs 00min 00sec
55-59    3hrs 40min 00sec    4hrs 10min 00sec
60-64    3hrs 55min 00sec    4hrs 25min 00sec
65-69    4hrs 10min 00sec    4hrs 40min 00sec
70-74    4hrs 25min 00sec    4hrs 55min 00sec
75-79    4hrs 40min 00sec    5hrs 10min 00sec
80 and over    4hrs 55min 00sec    5hrs 25min 00sec

[Nebu]

FUCK GETTING OLD!

Went for a short run yesterday (3 miles) and my ankles/knees are so sore today that I can't go up and down stairs without pain.  I work on the 5th floor and refuse to use the elevator. 

I'm starting to wonder if my running days are over.  Perhaps it's time to get back into cycling.

[01101010]

15 reps is too many, from it down to eight unless you're doing bodyweight work.

Well.. yes and no. I know at least one study that shows FAILURE is the key - whether it takes a ton of reps or a few. Meaning, as long as you lift to failure, you will gain muscle. Problem is the optimal time to work out. Most people can't afford workouts with 15-20rep sets even if it is to failure. Lower reps at a higher weight is more time efficient and hits the window of 45-60min.

[Nebu]

If you're trying to build strength and gain mass, then doing over 8 reps is not efficient.  It's far more effective to fail using high weight/low reps and doing more sets.  See: German Volume Training.

[DraconianOne]

Weird question: how does one qualify for certain marathons like Boston?   Is there some kind of certification one gets after registering for a marathon, or is there an association that tracks all your runs?  Thanks.

Nebu's given you the hard facts for Boston but of the major marathons (London, New York, Boston, Chicago, Berlin) that's the only one I know of that has strict qualifying times for entry. Other races have qualifying times for guaranteed entries but anyone of any level can enter the ballots and hope to get a place. Or you can go for a charity place.  Or you can enter a smaller scale marathon where the only qualifying criteria is getting an entry in before all the entries fill up.

I can't speak for the US about certification or anything but in the UK, if you're a registered member of uk:athletics and run in an event that is registered with them then they will record and publish your results in a massive database. But even if you're not registered, and don't have an entry in the database, it's not a problem as long as the event you ran that you're claiming for your qualification time is respectable and the result can be verified.

[DraconianOne]

FUCK GETTING OLD!

Went for a short run yesterday (3 miles) and my ankles/knees are so sore today that I can't go up and down stairs without pain.  I work on the 5th floor and refuse to use the elevator. 

I'm starting to wonder if my running days are over.  Perhaps it's time to get back into cycling.

When was the last time you went running?

[Miguel]

My opinion is that unless it is creating an aesthetic issue, just ignore it.  The reason I stressed as much as I did was because it was holding me back in  DB Shoulder Presses...which is just silly when you think about it.  Because I should be using Barbells to increase the strength of those muscles on BOTH sides, instead of floundering around for the sake of balance.

For me, it is to improve my hockey game.  Like I said, I've had to structure my game play around my right side strengths (to the point where I only play left wing, where I can shoot and turn to the boards using my strong right side).  I don't care about how I look to be honest.

I picked a 15 rep limit as I thought this would give a good balance between muscle strength and muscular endurance.

[Cyrrex]

Strength may only be part of the issue.  If you are anything like me, your left side might just be retarded and the best remedy is just to practice those moves until your coordination improves.

Still, strength can be an issue still, and if that is the case you really should work in the lower rep ranges.  How strong is your squat relative to your body weight, for example?  If it isn't yet relatively strong, then you should not worry about imbalances at all.  Worry about getting stronger overall.