David Jaffe and the Infinite Saddness

[HAMMER FRENZY]

Hmm, all this craziness at Jaffe's blog http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/ is just silly. I really liked the guy but his recent behavior is less than impressive. He needs to stop taking this stuff so seriously. I mean really, not all of his games are that great. Besides GOW he made a lot of semi decent stuff, but nothing that was, in my opinion super spectacular...Even the Twisted Metal stuff was and still is very much an acquired taste. (although i am kinda into TM black) I think that all the whining is kinda uncalled for. I guess i never thought he would act so childish and insecure.. Wondering what everyone else here thought. 

jorge!   

[Triforcer]

??

[Velorath]

Hmm, all this craziness at Jaffe's blog http://criminalcrackdown.blogspot.com/ is just silly. I really liked the guy but his recent behavior is less than impressive. He needs to stop taking this stuff so seriously. I mean really, not all of his games are that great. Besides GOW he made a lot of semi decent stuff, but nothing that was, in my opinion super spectacular...Even the Twisted Metal stuff was and still is very much an acquired taste. (although i am kinda into TM black) I think that all the whining is kinda uncalled for. I guess i never thought he would act so childish and insecure.. Wondering what everyone else here thought.   

There's a whole forum here for discussing video game related stuff.  Anyway, Jaffe is the first guy to admit not all his stuff is perfect.  As far as his blog there goes, his writing style is one that would probably fit in well here.  He likes to bitch and swear about stuff that pisses him off.

[Yoru]

There is, in fact, an entire forum for game stuff. So now you join it.

Anyway, this is more or less non-news, if you ask me. Game designer throws a fit, decides to take his ball and go home after some crap on the internet.

Boo fucking hoo.

[HAMMER FRENZY]

yeah he seemed to sound more whiney than anything. that and he resorts to name calling which is kinda funny but more pathetic. he just needs to take the good and the bad and not whine so much

[Morfiend]

I feel like I just walked in to a thread on page 3, but there doesnt seem to be a page 1 or 2.

/confused

[stray]

I feel like I just walked in to a thread on page 3, but there doesnt seem to be a page 1 or 2.

/confused

Someone gave Calling All Cars a less than stellar review. Jaffe's head explodes.

[stray]

Wait, I see why he's pissed now. Joystiq (I don't blame him).


Basically, he announced that he was delaying the game a little longer to fix two bugs. Joystiq made a smart ass post when they announced this news.

Like a little girl struggling to keep her favorite doll out of the garage sale bin, David Jaffe is returning to the world of Calling All Cars to make some fixes and revise some of the criticisms the title received via reviews, even after announcing that the title has gone gold, according to a post he left on the NeoGAF forums.

  Link


Then Jaffe flips out on his blog.

Fuck you, guys. Go fuck yourselves. What other developer makes a fucking change to a game when a review (IGN's in this case) has a good, valid point and is willing to open the fucking code up at the risk of more bugs to make the game better? Amazing.But hey, you guys are great, you guys rock. I hope Kotaku fucking puts your ass out of business, wanna be fucktards. And if you were actual journalists you would have read the motherfucking quote I posted on NEOGAF where I said because of the two bugs we needed to fix (not because I was afraid of the bargin bin) we had a window of opp. to fix the magnet problem. Assholes...total fucking assholes.

In his mind, he thought that he was doing a good thing by working out the kinks in the game. Apparently, Joystiq decided to be shitheads about it -- for some inexplicable reason.

[Velorath]

yeah he seemed to sound more whiney than anything. that and he resorts to name calling which is kinda funny but more pathetic.

I can't possibly imagine what you're doing at a place like this then.

[Margalis]

Kudos to him.

He is making his game better and bashing game journalism at the same time. Win win.

[NiX]

Thanks for making sense of this, Stray.

I have to agree with Margalis and say Win-Win. He did something that doesn't happen often based on some legitimate feedback and someone has to go and make it sound like a bad move. Can we get someone to burn Joystiq? And way to totally miss a key point, Hammer.

[schild]

I agree, other than the part where he praised Kotaku. That makes him look like a fuckin donk.

[Roac]

If David Jaffe can't handle that sort of petty criticism without blowing his stack, he's in the wrong business. 

[Velorath]

If David Jaffe can't handle that sort of petty criticism without blowing his stack, he's in the wrong business. 

They guys in the wrong business are the so-called journalists who want to take a shot at a developer because he has the nerve to delay the release of a game in order to fix some bugs and balance issues.

[stray]

Wrong business, PR wise. Sure, he doesn't talk like a "professional". That's his schtick. He's made some good games though. I'd rather have him in the business than well.... Almost everyone else.


I don't think he's really flipping out at the criticism so much as he's flipping out at the smartass stuff some game blogs try to bank on. I mean, he says he's going to get right to work on a couple of bugs, delay the game a little, and Joystiq made it out like it was a bad thing. He might as well flip out. Responding in a clever, toned down way isn't going to make one bit of difference to people who are already douchebags from the start.

[Margalis]

His blog is not very professional and never had been. I say that as a complement.

[WindupAtheist]

I like Frenzy's Marciano-Walcott avatard.  What was this thread about again?

[Roac]

They guys in the wrong business are the so-called journalists who want to take a shot at a developer because he has the nerve to delay the release of a game in order to fix some bugs and balance issues.

They aren't journalists, but bloggers.  The difference being, journalists attempt (or at least pretend) to be somewhat neutral and professional; Joystiq makes no pretense about that.  They have much more in common with F13 and Schild's rants than journalism, and that's by design.  Whereas with David, he is a developer first, and blogger by hobby.  His mistake was in putting his hobby over his profession.

But whatever.  I'm sure his posts will look like great reference material should he seek employment elsewhere. 

[schild]

David Jaffe does all the right things in all the wrong ways. He'll have no problem seeking employment because his games will eventually be on that Miyamoto/Sakaguchi untouchable level if they aren't already.

Gaming journalism does attempt or pretend to be neutral and professional. But they shouldn't.

Therein lies the folly of this entire subsection of the industry. Film critics are not neutral. Hell, film essayists aren't neutral. Art critics aren't neutral. Music critics aren't neutral. Game companies shouldn't expect us to post their press releases unless we're making fun of them. They shouldn't expect us to preview a game we don't give a shit about. And when we don't give a shit about it, they should go back to the drawing board. Why don't we give a shit about it? THEY SHOULD CARE. We're not respected as an art because we don't act like it's an art form. The critics fuck the devs. The devs fuck the critics. The news sites shouldn't exist. And publishers aren't playing Switzerland like they should be. Basically, everyone is at fault and we're all to blame. So fuck joystiq, fuck jaffe, and fuck everyone else for being the problem when they should be contributing to the solution. Sometimes I feel like I'm alone in the fucking universe.

[Roac]

David Jaffe does all the right things in all the wrong ways. He'll have no problem seeking employment because his games will eventually be on that Miyamoto/Sakaguchi untouchable level if they aren't already.

Only if he can keep his trap shut.  If Miyamoto went off like that, he'd get kicked to the curb.  All the talent in the world is no good if you damage the reputation of your employer.

Gaming journalism does attempt or pretend to be neutral and professional. But they shouldn't.

Gaming journalism should be neutral and professional.  Journalism would be where you report on raw information; dates, press releases, insider scoops, interviews, etc.  Gaming blogging (editorial reviews and the like) should not be neutral, but still professional.  There's no reason not to be professional; that doesn't mean they must be kind.  Ebert has a great style for this, where he will outright shred a movie if he doesn't like it, but he's still (or mostly still) professional.

[schild]

No. Game journalism shouldn't be neutral or professional because there isn't a such thing as gaming journalism. Once in a BLUE MOON, you can slip into real journalism with the genre like when I reported on the NCSoft layoff thing. But for the most part, no, it's not journalism. It's criticism. Even when people talk about release dates. As for PR. Meh. Fuck PR. There should be one website that's a depository for that shit in a nice easily searchable format, and that's it. If people want to talk about it on forums then fine. But Press releases are a big fucking waste of time and energy - there must be a better way. Interviews are never unbiased. We don't interview people Just to interview them. That said, my GoPets interview was ALMOST unbiased other than the fact I was genuinely interested. Insider Scoops aren't unbiased because you don't search for insider scoops for companies you don't give a shit about.

As for professional, I simply don't think this is the industry for that. It would require sweeping changes. Now, courteous I would understand. Kotaku is not courteous - I mean look at how they handled that Sony HOME thing. That's just common fucking courtesy. As for movie reviews, honestly, different generation. While a lot of us read Ebert still at this website, it's mostly for my grandma. We're a group of people who grew up with Old Man Murray, The Filthy Critic, and other outlets for various types and sectors in review. It's simply not the same.

This is a website where words like douche, cock, pussy, and smegma have been uttered - repeatedly. We have a thick skin. This Fucking Sucks is a valid way of discounting some dev teams horrible failure on a product. While it might be viewed as discourteous - I don't think so. Games require a time investment. They require a lot of it. And when companies release dogshit, it takes more of our time than a movie. Any movie. Companies knowingly repeat this shit. if we're professional in the same way the movie industry is, I simply think we're doing more harm than good. In other words, I think the word professional has a wider scope in gaming. We can get away with saying more because we're not rockstars. We're not in the public eye. And hell, Jack Thompson has made threats PUBLICALLY to people like PA - and they handled it gracefully. They wrote the check he wouldn't right WHILE calling him a punk asshole.

Movie stars, critics, music writers, tech writers - they can't get away with that shit.

We can. And we should cherish it.

Because honestly, I think we're more passionate. And better than them. Just a bit misled at the moment.

Edit: I just realized this post didn't make much sense. Sorry. I'm f'in tired.

[Yegolev]

I don't see a problem with what Jaffe wrote.  A man can flip his fucking wig on his own blog if he wants, we don't live in China.

I agree, other than the part where he praised Kotaku. That makes him look like a fuckin donk.

I took that as more of a "I hope you are pwned by a retard" than praise for Kotaku, but I could have been misreading it.

[Roac]

No. Game journalism shouldn't be neutral or professional because there isn't a such thing as gaming journalism. Once in a BLUE MOON, you can slip into real journalism with the genre like when I reported on the NCSoft layoff thing.

Scarcity of scoops doesn't mean journalism shouldn't be professional or neutral.  

As for professional, I simply don't think this is the industry for that. It would require sweeping changes. Now, courteous I would understand. Kotaku is not courteous - I mean look at how they handled that Sony HOME thing. That's just common fucking courtesy. As for movie reviews, honestly, different generation. While a lot of us read Ebert still at this website, it's mostly for my grandma. We're a group of people who grew up with Old Man Murray, The Filthy Critic, and other outlets for various types and sectors in review. It's simply not the same.

It's not been the same because the industry hasn't been near as mature (in every sense of the word) as others.  That's changing.  The more mainstream the industry becomes, the more mainstream critics and developers will become.  Ebert and others of his ilk are professional because they have to be; if he wrote something like what Jaffe did, his career would suffer.  You see it regularly whenever a movie star goes off the deep end on one thing or another.  When they become more of a liability than an asset, they find jobs and pay harder to come by.  The Cruise, Baldwin, and Gibsons of the world won't go broke when that happens, but Jaffe isn't in that category anymore than Joystiq is in Ebert's.  

[schild]

I think you're giving credit where it's not deserved and not giving credit where it is deserved.

But I'm tired and your last post didn't make sense to me.

[stray]

If we're going to use silly movie industry analogies, then Jaffe is more akin to Vince Vaughn spitting at a papparazzi's face. Not Mel Gibson yelling "Sugar Tits!" and "Screw the Jews!" at a cop or Tom Cruise flipping out about Scientology on Oprah.

i.e. A very insigificant occurance, and nothing that hurts the actor's career.

And nothing that will hurt Jaffe's career either. He's just a game developer, and someone only hardcore gamers know by name anyways. He's isn't auditioning for the church choir, or running for congress, or seeking to be the 21st century poster boy for the Mouseketeers.

Also, like Yegolev said above, this isn't China.

[Velorath]

Therein lies the folly of this entire subsection of the industry. Film critics are not neutral. Hell, film essayists aren't neutral. Art critics aren't neutral. Music critics aren't neutral.

Film critics don't insult people when a movies release gets delayed.  That's all this is about really.  It started off with Jaffe making some comments about why he felt some sites weren't judging Calling All Cars and small downloadable games in general in a way he thought was fair.  That post was written in a reasonable manner.   He also mentioned that IGN has some valid balance issues with the AI using a certain weapon and that since they were going to have to delay the release anyway to fix some bugs, he was going to fix those issues too while he was at it.  Cue Joystiq's insults.

This isn't about journalism or neutrality really.  It's about something as basic as not going off and being a dick for stupid reasons.  I don't know about you, but I don't want to actively discourage developers from fixing bugs or improving the game.

[Strazos]

Personally, I don't think we see enough delays in game releases.

[Hokers]

Hey Jaffe, despite the criticism you are getting, fix the bugs, we can wait.  Blizzard has us trained that "release when perfect" is a good thing.  If Duke Nuke'm Forever suddenly came out bug free it would be a hit, even with the decades of development time. 

edit:  Blizzard not Bethesda

[schild]

Therein lies the folly of this entire subsection of the industry. Film critics are not neutral. Hell, film essayists aren't neutral. Art critics aren't neutral. Music critics aren't neutral.

Film critics don't insult people when a movies release gets delayed.  That's all this is about really.  It started off with Jaffe making some comments about why he felt some sites weren't judging Calling All Cars and small downloadable games in general in a way he thought was fair.  That post was written in a reasonable manner.   He also mentioned that IGN has some valid balance issues with the AI using a certain weapon and that since they were going to have to delay the release anyway to fix some bugs, he was going to fix those issues too while he was at it.  Cue Joystiq's insults.

This isn't about journalism or neutrality really.  It's about something as basic as not going off and being a dick for stupid reasons.  I don't know about you, but I don't want to actively discourage developers from fixing bugs or improving the game.

Actually, that's the beauty of the whole thing. It's something I was trying to say with the Kotaku/SCEA issue. They should be able to insult eachother but they should try to avoid taking the winds out of eachothers sails. They should be able to make fun. But there's little precious left in the industry that we have to steal what little thunder we can from eachother. That's just tacky. Did Calling all cars need to be delayed for a single-digit number of bugs? Probably not. Would a patch in a week had been acceptable for a rebalance. Yes. Did Jaffe fall under scrutiny in this situation because he got a bad review and flipped? Yes. Will IGN review the game again? Lol, probably. Was Joystiq right to say a fucking thing? No. They were just poking a tiger. And they knew it.  Jaffe doesn't like releasing things half-assed. Joystiq KNOWS this. And they tried to make him look like an asshole. It's the same thing as Kotaku posting those emails. They're trading in dickishness to get popular.

I hate that shit.

I may be a mean bastard on the frontpage. I may ABSOLUTELY tear into games publically once a company commits to putting them on the shelf in a certain condition. I may post some horrible news that gets people in trouble. But I Never Ever trade in the secrets I know and I know other journalists know (and have told me). That's where you cross the fucking line. I also won't trade in making fun of someone because they want to perfect something. However, I feel the need to point out - since someone will - my poking of Brad McQuaid.

McQuaid argues that he didn't have TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME to fix all the errors. All the fucking monkeys on keyboards in the world with all the days through all time with 8 hours added onto each day wouldn't have made Vanguard a success. And I really didn't start RIPPING IT APART until AFTER the NDA had dropped. It simply wasn't my business. But when he's making huge game-altering patches on launch day. Well. That's not what David Jaffe is doing. He wants to release something in the best form on day 1. He took a step back to address complaints in reviews. Also, McQuaid doesn't accept his mistakes. Jaffe on the other hand immediately did and went to go fix THAT ISSUE.

So call him a fucker for making you wait. Call him a fucker for not getting it right the first time. Hell, call him a fucker for not being a perfectionist. But do not call him a fucker for his responding to what one of your PEERS did. See, unfortunately, many developers read Joystiq, IGN, Gamespot, Kotaku and such in the same light. It's a fucking shame since there are very few writers at any of them could tell their ass from a video game, but it's like that. And Joystiq, just like Kotaku, fucked that up a bit.

Jaffe, I think, could have responded even more harshly. Cut Joystiq off. Fuck them. Put them in their ghetto ass hollywood style doesn't-review-games bloggy kind of place. Point out that they are Section 8 Journalism. Fucking ruin their whiny asses.

[Velorath]

Did Jaffe fall under scrutiny in this situation because he got a bad review and flipped?

But he really didn't flip.  People want to call him a whiner or say that he can't handle the review score Gamespot gave him, but read the actual post.  There's nothing about it that consitutes flipping out, and there were plenty of points throughout the post where he admitted that since he's the game's designer he's a bit biased and that "I’m not bashing them or the score so much as just being confused a bit.".  There really wasn't a single inflammatory thing in that post, but some people just decided to jump on it.