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Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: SirBruce on October 01, 2004, 12:46:28 PM From the Lionhead Studios Board (http://allboards.lionhead.com/showthread.php?t=83152):
Quote A message from Peter Molyneux. There is something I have to say. And I have to say it because I love making games. When a game is in development, myself and the development teams I work with constantly encourage each other to think of the best features and the most ground-breaking design possible. However, what happens is that we strive to include absolutely everything we've ever dreamt of and, in my enthusiasm, I talk about it to anyone who'll listen, mainly in press interviews. When I tell people about what we're planning, I'm telling the truth, and people, of course, expect to see all the features I've mentioned. And when some of the most ambitious ideas get altered, redesigned or even dropped, people rightly want to know what happened to them. If I have mentioned any feature in the past which, for whatever reason, didn't make it as I described into Fable, I apologise. Every feature I have ever talked about WAS in development, but not all made it. Often the reason is that the feature did not make sense. For example, three years ago I talked about trees growing as time past. The team did code this but it took so much processor time (15%) that the feature was not worth leaving in. That 15 % was much better spent on effects and combat. So nothing I said was groundless hype, but people expecting specific features which couldn't be included were of course disappointed. If that's you, I apologise. All I can say is that Fable is the best game we could possibly make, and that people really seem to love it. I have come to realise that I should not talk about features too early so I am considering not talking about games as early as I do. This will mean that the Lionhead games will not be known about as early as they are, but I think this is the more industry standard. Our job as the Lionhead family of studios is to be as ambitious as we possibly can. But although we jump up and down in glee about the fabulous concepts and features we're working on, I will not mention them to the outside world until we've implemented and tested them, and they are a reality. Thank you for reading. Peter. Personally, while I don't think this is that big of a deal, it is refreshing for a developer to come out and acknowledge that things were promised that never made it into the final product, and to apologize for those shortcomings of the development process. Bruce Title: Re: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Shockeye on October 01, 2004, 01:01:06 PM Quote from: Petey The team did code this but it took so much processor time (15%) that the feature was not worth leaving in. That 15 % was much better spent on effects and combat. Yet another reason why the game would've been better on the PC. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Sky on October 01, 2004, 01:46:41 PM Yes, that apology could be summed up in one sentence: "We apologize for putting this out on the xbox." I wish I could get a better refund for the turd.
But it's final, at least: I'll not buy any more of Pete's games, he's destroyed the last of his credibility with me after these last two. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Ardent on October 01, 2004, 03:25:23 PM Fable did not suck as hard as Black and White. So, Pete has nothing to apologize for in my eyes.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Shockeye on October 01, 2004, 04:00:43 PM I paid $35 plus tax for Fable and then got $36 in credit for a trade-in. I ended up losing about $2.50. I'd say the game was worth that and then some.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Shockeye on October 01, 2004, 04:01:41 PM Quote from: Ardent Fable did not suck as hard as Black and White. So, Pete has nothing to apologize for in my eyes. I agree with the former but not the latter. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Big Gulp on October 01, 2004, 04:57:18 PM Quote from: Shockeye Quote from: Ardent Fable did not suck as hard as Black and White. So, Pete has nothing to apologize for in my eyes. I agree with the former but not the latter. The only games of his I ever really loved were Populous and Syndicate (admittedly, two friggin' great games). I never really thought that the Dungeon Keeper games were all that great. Good idea, not so great execution. That seems to be a consistent theme with Bullfrog/Lionshead. I do give them much credit for trying out new concepts, most studios don't have the balls for that. That also means, though, that I've learned to wait a good while before I buy anymore Molyneux games. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Margalis on October 01, 2004, 09:30:09 PM He's a guy that talks the talk a lot more than walks the walk. Project Ego was a good name, because it really is about his ego. It will be the greatest RPG ever blah blah blah....when B&W came out there were HUGE previews, post-mortems, etc.
A lot of them are exciting ideas, but coming up with a cool idea on paper is pretty easy. What is the last cool game they made? You can't milk populous forever. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Rodent on October 01, 2004, 10:33:53 PM I've learned to ignore what he says and just enjoy his games for what they are. Fable was a really good game, I had a blast with it.
T-Th-Tha-that's all folks. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: stray on October 01, 2004, 10:38:43 PM Damn, you guys hate Black and White too?
I think I'd still buy a Fable II if and when they ever release one. I wasn't all that impressed, but I've enjoyed everything else they've done. In my opinion, it's only Lionhead's first failure (But hell, it's not like Fable was horrible or something. Just too short and not "great" is all). Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: AOFanboi on October 02, 2004, 02:26:41 AM Quote from: Ardent Fable did not suck as hard as Black and White. So, Pete has nothing to apologize for in my eyes. You mean he has apologized for Black & White? He and Lionhead need to learn which is better:
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Tebonas on October 03, 2004, 11:36:35 PM I read that as "Sorry we whored the game out to the X-Box and therefore had to lose features that console crap couldn't handle". Poor Peter, nobody forced you to do it so I don't feel sorry for you.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: HaemishM on October 04, 2004, 08:35:32 AM Jeebus, what the fuck is up with the Fable hate? Maybe it's only because I've played the game for about 10 hours, but I still love this game. I don't feel any pressure to try to finish it any time soon, just play it in short spurts or long gasps as my mood strikes me. And people say I'm fucking jaded.
It's a fun sandbox RPG. Could it have been better? Sure. But I've played a fuckload worse. Beats the hell out of a damn Sims "game." Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: SirBruce on October 04, 2004, 10:14:22 AM I'm almost finished with Fable; just a few more quests to go. I've picked up Lady Grey as my 4th wife, which I think is close to the max you can get since you need a house for each one. (Maybe I can pick up a 5th in Hook Coast?) I'm 40 years old and I've maxed out all my Physical attributes.
Bruce Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Xilren's Twin on October 04, 2004, 02:29:39 PM Quote from: HaemishM Jeebus, what the fuck is up with the Fable hate? Maybe it's only because I've played the game for about 10 hours, but I still love this game. I don't feel any pressure to try to finish it any time soon, just play it in short spurts or long gasps as my mood strikes me. And people say I'm fucking jaded. It's a fun sandbox RPG. Could it have been better? Sure. But I've played a fuckload worse. Beats the hell out of a damn Sims "game." Liked it enough to finish it, but this game is a shadow of what it could have been. Morrowind has tons most content and play options even without the "get married and do the implied nasty". Part of it is this game is suffering from consolities in a big way (teeny areas and no exploration), part of it was the two main peices of the game (mainquest/combat and town-sandbox) don't fit well together. They're practically mutual exclusive in that they dont effect each other. I wanted it to be a deep and long game; sadly, it's really a rental. Xilren Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Sky on October 04, 2004, 04:20:27 PM So much time wasted on the stupid marriage and house buying parts, they simply feel like they are tacked-on, even though it's the reverse, and the game is tacked onto them. It never feels like part of the game, has no bearing on the game, and is implemented like shit. This is a title that embodies half-assed development and the limitations bestowed upon the industry by the lowest goddamned denominator, the console.
Fable II? I'll hold off for Gothic III, thanks. And whenever Gothic III comes out, whatever game I'm about to get directly after that I'm totally hyped up about (Morrowind, Fable)....I'll take bets on it sucking. The gothic franchise has its quirks, but it's beat both of those over-hyped turds quite handily imo. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Ardent on October 04, 2004, 04:27:25 PM I was disappointed that you can't be a pure magic user in Fable. Your magic is really only there to support your melee. I tried to start out as a fireball-caster, and I got my ass handed to me in every combat. Same with a sneaky archer type. I rerolled with a melee guy and started cutting through people like they were made of Twinkie cream.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Sky on October 04, 2004, 05:48:52 PM I wouldn't know, I couldn't use the bow for the entire game because you can't invert the bow camera.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Rasix on October 04, 2004, 06:23:35 PM Err, you didn't need to actually aim the bow. Just lock on and shoot.
Bitch more, please. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: schild on October 04, 2004, 06:27:32 PM It's true some of these complaints hold less water than the graphical complaints I have about WoW. At least the Fable experience lasts about 15 hours while an MMORPG experience lasts upwards of a thousand.
Seriously, being a magic user is easy. Being a swordsman is easy. Being an archer is easy. Particularly with how much more damage the bows do until you get up to master level weapons. The game on a whole is just easy. Which isn't a problem since the fighting isn't Soul Caliber level anyway. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Ardent on October 04, 2004, 10:06:10 PM Quote from: Sky I wouldn't know, I couldn't use the bow for the entire game because you can't invert the bow camera. Yes, you can. Options > Camera Up/Down > Inverted Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Sky on October 05, 2004, 06:29:30 AM So I didn't know about the bow. I guess it'll be such a compelling experience to replay it as a bowman I just have to try again! Or at least play through again as an evil character!
No. The game sucks. Not like my opinion is going to change now that I've finished playing the game. That enough, Ras, or should I bitch some more? I can never tell. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: HaemishM on October 05, 2004, 07:39:12 AM I think that the one reason you can't be a pure spell-caster in the game is that there is no "root" spell, or really, any kind of snare or crowd control spell. Considering you're almost always going to take on multiples, and even when you have henchmen, the AI goes for you most of the time, there isn't a way to just blast away with spells.
Unless of course you take things like Force Push/Enflame and Slow Time. Physical Shield would help, except that it only lasts while you have will, and the spells would drain your will quickly. Once I finish it, I may go through it again to try an evil spellcaster guy, just to see if it's possible. I think this is one of the few games I have contemplated going through again once I finish, which is more than I can say for an MMOG. I have never maxxed out a character in an MMOG and continued playing. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Ardent on October 05, 2004, 08:12:32 AM I'm sure spellcasting gets better as you go on, but at the early levels, it's not nearly as effective as melee.
The problem is, you do more damage with melee than with your lightning/fireball, and you don't have to burn mana. There is an early mission where you have to kill more bad guys than Whisper. I tried this as a spellcaster, and I was sucking down expensive mana potions left and right and I was getting obliterated, even after three or four tries. I rerolled a melee guy, and when I got to that same mission I handled it easily on the first try. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: SirBruce on October 05, 2004, 10:41:05 AM Did anyone else wish they could sleep with Whisper?
Bruce Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: schild on October 05, 2004, 10:41:49 AM Quote from: SirBruce Did anyone else wish they could sleep with Whisper? The Cajun pixel-queen? No, kthx. I killed her the first chance I got. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Rasix on October 05, 2004, 10:51:48 AM Quote from: SirBruce Did anyone else wish they could sleep with Whisper? Bruce Not terribly, although she would have been a good canidate for a "good" romance/marriage quest instead of having to marry that evil queen bitch Mayor. It's too bad you couldn't do anything with the knowledge that the Mayor killed her own sister. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Ardent on October 05, 2004, 10:54:50 AM Marrying an evil bitch queen does represent a more realistic portrayal of married life.
[/bitter divorced guy] Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: SirBruce on October 05, 2004, 10:59:22 AM Quote from: Rasix Quote from: SirBruce Did anyone else wish they could sleep with Whisper? Bruce Not terribly, although she would have been a good canidate for a "good" romance/marriage quest instead of having to marry that evil queen bitch Mayor. It's too bad you couldn't do anything with the knowledge that the Mayor killed her own sister. I think it's supposed to be a "choice"; i.e. you can marry the other girl in Bowerstone North instead. Unfortunately, I already married another gal in Bowerstone South so we wouldn't have had any place to live. Still, marrying Lady Grey didn't net any evil points, and she seems nice enough in the bedroom! Looks like I can pick up a 5th wife in Hook Coast, but the house is too friggin' expensive. I'm trying to save up 200K for Temple of Avo donations. Bruce Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: HaemishM on October 05, 2004, 11:37:15 AM Quote from: schild Quote from: SirBruce Did anyone else wish they could sleep with Whisper? The Cajun pixel-queen? No, kthx. I killed her the first chance I got. Ditto. Bitch was pissing me off. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Alluvian on October 06, 2004, 06:47:52 PM Lionheart and Blizzard should make a game together so we don't have to see either of them for the next 25 years or so. Then at the end they will have either killed themselves off or made a really cool game.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: MrHat on October 06, 2004, 08:37:36 PM Quote from: Alluvian Lionheart and Blizzard should make a game together so we don't have to see either of them for the next 25 years or so. Then at the end they will have either killed themselves off or made a really cool game. I still think Pete should form a think tank dev company that just thinks up ideas and then sells them to indie dev houses to create cool games. Oh wait. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: HaemishM on October 07, 2004, 08:01:26 AM I did marry the evil bitch Lady Grey, but cannot seem to get her all that excited about our actually being married. She won't follow me anywhere, not even to her well-appointed bedroom. She is an ice queen.
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: schild on October 07, 2004, 08:02:16 AM Quote from: HaemishM I did marry the evil bitch Lady Grey, but cannot seem to get her all that excited about our actually being married. She won't follow me anywhere, not even to her well-appointed bedroom. She is an ice queen. Not if you kill her first. Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: HaemishM on October 07, 2004, 08:10:17 AM They don't let me have my weapons in Bowerstone. :(
Title: Peter Molyneux Apologizes for Feature Cuts in Fable Post by: Sky on October 07, 2004, 09:56:04 AM I found out about her murdering her sister before I did (or more accurately didn't) do the marriage quest. Since there's no resolution, it's another dangling quest that I didn't finish. Given the paucity and simplicity of these quests, that's a damned shame. At least I can look on it as a good thing that I have no urge to play that game again, though I wish I had the damned cash back imo.
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