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Topic: EvE Devs play with BoB. Investigation in progress....New Scandal page 9! (Read 445949 times)
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tmp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4257
POW! Right in the Kisser!
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Yup, colour me surprised. Out of all things, I'd never expect the BPO part to be true. Just seemed too unlikely since --given how much attention players pay to them-- I was expecting CCP to track their distribution like a hawk.
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Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220
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If the referees cheat, and stay referees, there is no point to the game. Masturbation is a more rewarding pursuit.
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"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
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Tragny
Terracotta Army
Posts: 103
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If the referees cheat, and stay referees, there is no point to the game. Masturbation is a more rewarding pursuit.
I don't know why, but this amused me quite a bit. Likely because I've a juvenile outlook. Therefore, sigged!
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"Masturbation is a more rewarding pursuit." -- Evangolis
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angry.bob
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5442
We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I.
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For it to be a witchhunt, shouldn't at least some of the things they were accused of doing not have been absolutely true and admitted to?
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Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
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Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220
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Image Removed, it was pretty good, but we've seen it twice now.
For it to be a witchhunt, shouldn't at least some of the things they were accused of doing not have been absolutely true and admitted to?Idiomaticy, sure the term is wrong, but technically, that just means it was a successful witchhunt. I have some historical perspective, which I commend to you, even though it is fairly dry PBS stuff: This is a link to the people and events of the late 1950s Quiz Show scandal, which resulted in congressional hearings and legislation. Technically, what has happened here might be seen as illegal in the US under the Communications Act of 1960, particularly since a raffle was involved. Here is a review of the move Quiz Show. I can't speak to it's quality as a review, having never seen the movie, and it clearly is dealing with a fictionalized and opinionated film, as you can see from reviewing the prior links, but I thought it was some pretty decent writing, and got to what I'm feeling pretty well. I think there is something important for this industry to consider here. In the PBEM days, I saw very popular games collapse because of such scadals, and I have to wonder, what if this was happening in a game with WoW's profile and popularity, rather than a smaller independent title? If you look at the links above, you will notice that this had become a culture of corruption in early TV, and was as damaging to the quiz show format as the Comics Code was to comics. We get plenty alarmed about the threat of a 'Comics Code' for games, and I think we should also be alramed about this.
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"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
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Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306
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Yup, colour me surprised. Out of all things, I'd never expect the BPO part to be true. Just seemed too unlikely since --given how much attention players pay to them-- I was expecting CCP to track their distribution like a hawk. Oh they caught it, they just didn't do anything about it. Not until it became a public affair. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=473490&page=1#3Third post in: Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer when the majority of the senior company staff was on vacation. This lead to the caution against taking more harsh measures such as termination of employment. T20 was punished at the time for his misconduct. To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct. It's extra special now
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and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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tazelbain
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6603
tazelbain
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I think we have figured out what "meaningful PvP" means
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"Me am play gods"
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tmp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4257
POW! Right in the Kisser!
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Oh they caught it, they just didn't do anything about it. Not until it became a public affair. http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=473490&page=1#3Third post in: Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer when the majority of the senior company staff was on vacation. This lead to the caution against taking more harsh measures such as termination of employment. T20 was punished at the time for his misconduct. To terminate t20's employment now would appease some of the more emotional members of the community, but it would also be unfair to punish someone twice for the same misconduct. It's extra special now Yes, I meant the posts on hacker's site indicated that it was discovered in the first place (during the summer) because the dev in question was petitioned by unnamed player over this very issue (spawning BPOs for himself or whatever way he used). As in, CCP didn't actually catch him themselves until notified, by the looks of it. And then since the BPOs were left in the game it just made it all look like they were in fact legit... pretty crazy all around.
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Comstar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1952
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I was hoping someone had saved this. Wounder if it got deleted afterwards. Hmm, 75+ page thread now on eve-online, and DB P seems absent, though I missed reading about 40 pages. Mabye he did get banned.
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« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 03:46:53 AM by Comstar »
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Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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I suddenly got the mental image of Hilmar being in a CCP version of The Departed.
I should think it's well known that the CCP founders play their own game competitively, if you read interviews and such. I don't mind that so much, but I can understand the community's sentiments in regards to them all being in BoB. Nevermind the apparent forum bias, or even considering cheating, it's just somewhat bothersome that the top players are all in one alliance. No one likes BoB and the big fish is bleeding now.
Not that I have time to play now.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Comstar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1952
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Well the story appears over. 100+ pages of posts, and it's locked. All new threads deleted. No new comment from CCP past page 10 or so. T20 keeps his job. BoD keeps the money (wounder how many sabre's got build, or BPCs). The war continues. BoD deploys another Titan.
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Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
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Reg
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5274
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Well it won't be forgotten. No matter what happens to BoB good or bad it's going to be blamed on the absence or the presence of Dev favoritism.
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ajax34i
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Posts: 2527
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Yeah, the snide comments about devs cheating will continue for a while, but will eventually stop, too. This past weekend's peak concurrent was 30k, same as previous weekends, so it doesn't look like they lost any players (but perhaps we need to wait a month for subscriptions to expire). The war serves as the interesting carrot to keep people from leaving.
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Evangolis
Contributor
Posts: 1220
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The snide comments will continue a long time, witness the enduring hate some people have, although that fades with a few years. Since most people don't read any game boards, there probably won't be that much change, but the good viral marketing that EVE and CCP has been enjoying will change more to negative press. Certainly the next time my my non-board warrior friends and I talk MMOs, I'll propound on this.
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"It was a difficult party" - an unexpected word combination from ex-Merry Prankster and author Robert Stone.
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Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10510
https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png
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Christ, after reading the corp boards I have to just root for BoB now. The whole melodramatic, self righteous whining the people are throwing around with this war is just annoys the fuck out of me. The BoD usage thing is just retarded as well. I hope BoB survives intact just to piss them all off. Not that I have any love for BoB or anything, but I think all major 0.0 alliances are mainly composed of a bunch of catass worthless pricks, no better than BoB. Seeing their grand crusade fail would cause so many agonized tears that the servers would blow up from water damage. It would be glorious. (Though all things considered, with almost every single major Alliance in the game Vs. BoB right now, they are in deep shit). I don’t particularly care about the developer scandal much, since it pretty much would never effect me, or the majority of people on this board (0.0 PvP is the Eve equivalent of Raiding people. Not for anything approaching the masses. Even when we were apart of 0.0 alliances, I didn’t feel like I was really taking part in any of these grand politics/battles. Of course -V- and Goonswarm were kind of retarded as well.) I think its bad, don’t get me wrong, but I actually DO think it doesn’t have a terribly big impact on the game, or even BoBs effectiveness (they are too insanely rich/catass for that small of perks to matter much).
And oddly, I now have this strong desire to resub and go mine lots of expensive ore.........wtf is wrong with me. Though, I believe if I log back on, Ill find myself in the old -V- station, along with most my mining equipment. At least that means I could sell it all off before I jump out of the station and get podded I guess, heh.
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"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor." -Stephen Colbert
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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You know, I really, really fail to see how anyone could continue to play a game like this when it's become clear that the Developers were cheating in it.
Particularly in EVE, doesn't that invalidate the whole point ?
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Megrim
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2512
Whenever an opponent discards a card, Megrim deals 2 damage to that player.
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You know, I really, really fail to see how anyone could continue to play a game like this when it's become clear that the Developers were cheating in it.
Particularly in EVE, doesn't that invalidate the whole point ?
As with all things, i suspect it's not so much the favouritism that bothers people, but the fact that there was an attempted cover-up subsequently. I imagine that this might be because ultimately the BoB > * thing doesn't really effect many players on any individual level (ok so they lost fleet battles, boo-hoo), but the brazen disregard for public opinion has genuinely hurt those players who would consider themselves to be 'loyal customers'.
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One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
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Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306
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Probably stings a lot more for the folks who were actually in the alliances that got steamrolled by BoB. Now they get to wonder if things would've been different if BoB didn't have Dev help. Odds are, no, they all still would have died a horrible death. Doesn't make them feel any better about it though.
The whole EVE War 1 thing going on has probably gotten enough people to re-sub to offset any losses from the Dev Cheating crap. A LOT of people *REALLY* want a piece of BoB, no matter how small a part they will actually play.
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and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Simond
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6742
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Christ, after reading the corp boards I have to just root for BoB now. That's...interesting. Siding with the cheats because people are upset about cheating? What did Redswarm ever do to you? And oddly, I now have this strong desire to resub and go mine lots of expensive ore.........wtf is wrong with me. Though, I believe if I log back on, Ill find myself in the old -V- station, along with most my mining equipment. Ah. ;-) And speaking of people wanting a piece of BoB, they lost a Nyx (carrier) BPO to their enemies last night. I'm surprised there hasn't been more attacks on shipping & corp theft attempts yet, as well.
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Soln
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4737
the opportunity for evil is just delicious
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Ironwood clarity FTW
here's an honest question: isn't there only one uber corp/alliance on the new China cluster that is totally dominating gameplay over there? I've seen that mentioned recently in Eve-O boards and around. If so, what really is to prevent this on TQ? CCP is presuming Western players will self-destruct at some point and no mega alliance will prevail? And/or they are presuming western players will show some restraint and not obliterate any of their competition while they are still growing?
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Endie
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Posts: 6436
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Christ, after reading the corp boards I have to just root for BoB now.
I don't get this at all. Seeing people get annoyed about cheating and try to punich the cheats in-game makes you root for.. the cheats?!? As with all things, i suspect it's not so much the favouritism that bothers people, but the fact that there was an attempted cover-up subsequently.
Spot-on for me. This may seem like a somewhat grandiose comparison, but I am so pissed off about the lying, corruption and subsequent whitewashes and cover-ups of my government (the Blair regime), that my reaction to seeing the same "we'll investigate it ourselves... oh, turns out it was only one person and he's very sorry, kthxbye" routine occurring here is visceral. here's an honest question: isn't there only one uber corp/alliance on the new China cluster that is totally dominating gameplay over there? ... If so, what really is to prevent this on TQ? CCP is presuming Western players will self-destruct at some point and no mega alliance will prevail?
The Chinese, of course, have lived for sixty years with the idea that one murderous and corrupt regime runs everything. They might just have got used to it. And perhaps, as in real life, their monolithic regime might be tremendously corrupt, too, allowing everyone to pay lip-service to it but largely profit as they wish. As long as they don't get fitted up for one of their hundreds of "if you're charged, you're guilty; if you're guilty, you're shot" sections of the penal code.
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My blog: http://endie.netTwitter - Endieposts "What else would one expect of Scottish sociopaths sipping their single malt Glenlivit [sic]?" Jack Thompson
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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And oddly, I now have this strong desire to resub and go mine lots of expensive ore.........wtf is wrong with me. Though, I believe if I log back on, Ill find myself in the old -V- station, along with most my mining equipment. Ah. ;-) I wouldn't read so much into the tenuous-at-best connection between F13 and -V-, which would lean us away from LV and BoB if anything.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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Yoru
Moderator
Posts: 4615
the y master, king of bourbon
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I can feel the love.
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Wow, a big vagina space station....
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Morat20
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That picture amuses me. Carry on.
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Fordel
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8306
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Wait, does the Amarr Titan really open up like that when you use the hanger function? Would be pretty keen if it did.
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and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Yegolev
Moderator
Posts: 24440
2/10 WOULD NOT INGEST
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That's not a space station.
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Why am I homeless? Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question. They called it The Prayer, its answer was law Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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eldaec
Terracotta Army
Posts: 11843
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That's no moon!
fixed. sorry.
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"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson "Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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Furiously
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Posts: 7199
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No - it's your rear and the ship is CCP about to bend you over.
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WayAbvPar
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No - it's your rear and the ship is CCP about to bend you over.
Happy Valentine's Day, players! Now bend over and smile like a donut.
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When speaking of the MMOG industry, the glass may be half full, but it's full of urine. HaemishM
Always wear clean underwear because you never know when a Tory Government is going to fuck you.- Ironwood
Libertarians make fun of everyone because they can't see beyond the event horizons of their own assholes Surlyboi
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TheDreamr
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Posts: 160
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here's an honest question: isn't there only one uber corp/alliance on the new China cluster that is totally dominating gameplay over there? I've seen that mentioned recently in Eve-O boards and around. If so, what really is to prevent this on TQ? CCP is presuming Western players will self-destruct at some point and no mega alliance will prevail? And/or they are presuming western players will show some restraint and not obliterate any of their competition while they are still growing?
At one point around September I'm pretty sure there were several alliances controlling territory on the Chinese cluster (serenity), and basically catassing through content at such a stupid rate resources were no object and the bottleneck became the time it took to get people trained. In fairness I haven't seen much "solid" looking commentary on serenity recently, so bearing that in mind... There was some discussion last month about one of the PC gaming rags running a story that "the" biggest alliance on serenity controlling nearly all the 0.0 regions, and having the head of a major chinese gold farming outfit running the alliance while paid accounts slowly decline. Without objective commentary it's hard to judge whether that's a blatant troll, piss-poor journalism, or maybe just the truth.
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edit button addict.
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Teleku
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10510
https://i.imgur.com/mcj5kz7.png
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First, as I already mentioned, I think the "cheat" thing is way blown out of proportion anyways, so again, the stupid self rightous thing bugs me. Also, these people are just bandwagoning on the dev scandel for an excuse. The BoB hate was already wide spread long before this came down, and the War was going to happen despite it. The politics were already being set up in the aftermath of their last war. So this isnt really a matter of people trying to take down the cheaters, just masking general hatered to make themselves look noble. But beyond all that, as I said, I think almost ALL major Eve alliances are a bunch of elitist asshole catass's. I dont really view any of them as better than BoB at all in that regard (goonswarm is actually kind of funny since they take a less serious approach to the game then alot of the drama whores I run into in it, so I actually kind of like them). So, BoB's continued existance drives all the others mad. Therefore, I root for BoB as victories for them will result in the greatest amount of anger . And yes, I dont care about -V- falling apart. I was just saying that when I last let my sub run out, we were still in that alliance, and all my shit (along with my char) is sitting in one of their previously owned stations. I dont hold any grudge against Redswarm (-V- leadership sucked anyways).
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"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants. He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor." -Stephen Colbert
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Yes, but you're not right. I don't play (though I was wanting to until this), so I don't have any axe to grind at all with any guild or alliance. All I see is that this game is supposed to have 'Meanginful' PvP.
It has been brought to light that a Developer of the game, on the side of one of the biggest PvP Guilds, was using his Developer Tools to make that guild more powerful. It doesn't matter to what extent he did that or what 'proportion' you'd like to assign it : Suddenly, your PvP isn't meaningful at all. It's fucking trivial.
It's like playing a marathon game of Monopoly that's tense and exciting only to find out on Audit that the player acting as the Banker was feeding himself wads of 100's.
It's fucked. And I can't believe as a player that you're passing it off as a small thing. Continually. There's a good quote from Brokentoys where someone with the same view as you said 'At least it shows that the Developers care enough about their game to cheat.'
I swear, I still haven't stopped laughing/sobbing at that one.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Ironwood
Terracotta Army
Posts: 28240
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Also, can we all please start spelling Scandal right ?
FFS.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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tmp
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4257
POW! Right in the Kisser!
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It has been brought to light that a Developer of the game, on the side of one of the biggest PvP Guilds, was using his Developer Tools to make that guild more powerful. It doesn't matter to what extent he did that or what 'proportion' you'd like to assign it : Suddenly, your PvP isn't meaningful at all. It's fucking trivial.
There's this completely unfounded presumption the cheating only went on single side and affected just one party. When it's pointed out "it was only one guy" the haters jump up and down in nerd rage spitting and screaming "lies! lies! only one was caught, they are all cheaters, Band of Developers!". Well, if we accept this logic then it must be applied to all equally -- there's zero reason to believe other devs weren't "helping" other alliances as well, they just didn't get caught (yet). And when everyone is cheating, then no one is.
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