Rift: Planes of Telara

[Xanthippe]

Personally, I don't mind when mmo games are released lacking end game content, but I don't play them for end game content.  If I'm not having fun leveling up, I'm pretty sure I won't be having fun when I get to the end.

If any game lends itself to making alts, this one sure does, with all the possibilities.

[Rasix]

Well, 3 alts at least, if you don't play the other side.  Aren't you supposed to get access to all souls in your "class" at some point?

Every beta event makes me more likely to play this.  I'm not sure why, but when given the choice to log into WoW or log into Rift, I pick Rift.   I play MMOs so sporadically now, it'll take me forever to hit cap.  So, hopefully issues are addressed before I reach them.

[Draegan]

If there is a second group that has already content passed Scarlet Gorge and Scarwood and given it the thumbs up, their other group is terrible and should be replaced immediately. It's pretty undeniable that right now a zone comes out, then gets a pass, and another pass, and then is "good". Last patch changed the placeholder quest names in Gloamwood. It was THAT unfinished that they hadn't even finished naming quests.

"this has all been tested and the stuff you haven't seen is totally badass" is the "there's another client we don't have that fixes all the bugs" of this beta.

I'm just not seeing the issues transitioning between Gloamwood and Scarlet Gorge that you are seeing.  All the quests seemed to work for me.  They have been constantly tweaking the quest progression from Beta 1 until now.

Well, 3 alts at least, if you don't play the other side.  Aren't you supposed to get access to all souls in your "class" at some point?

I think it's around level 13 or so you can get quests for all the souls in the capitol city.

[kildorn]

The issue is that the breadcrumbs typically don't exist, the quest hubs are sparse for the most part, and the plot lines just Die (Scarlet Gorge's plotline just ends for guardians when you do the group(3) to close the fire rift and sends you on your way to Scarwood for no reason. Scarwood's just randomly DIES for no reason. You sanctify a wardstone! Something evil pops out! You find a mysterious book behind it! This tells the main general dude he needs some crystals! You get them! Okay, story's over. Go kill 8 trolls for this dude.)

Content completion wise, Scarlet Gorge and Scarwood are about a 6/10 at best. It's worse if you look at them comparatively to Silverpine or Gloamwood's polish.

[sam, an eggplant]

I kind of get the feeling that they could get something like 400~500k sustained subscribers.   Seems like small change to WoW but in reality it's probably a number that would have Trion investors making money hats.

You'd think so, but Rifts had a $50m budget, so it will take around 350k subs to be profitable in the first year. Any less than that and they would eventually make money but wouldn't ultimately be seen as successful.

The game came out of nowhere, so people forget just how successful Trion has been at attracting capital. They've raised over $100m and have two additional games in the pipeline that you won't recognize until they come out of nowhere too.

Edit: Well, the above calculation ignores box sales. They might end up selling ~600-800k boxes like WAR, AoC, etc, netting $12-13 each. I still think their minimum mark for success would be >350k subs, but they would probably sit in the black with 300k.

[Merusk]

Well, 3 alts at least, if you don't play the other side.  Aren't you supposed to get access to all souls in your "class" at some point?

I think it's around level 13 or so you can get quests for all the souls in the capitol city.

13 or 15, I can't remember. And lest anyone go into "oh hell, class unlock quests" panic mode, they're some of the easiest quests ever.  Talk to a guy, do a rift invasion, collect a shard, click on the quest item and kill the mob that spawns.  ta-dum.  It took me all of an hour and a half to unlock all the souls because I started in the middle of a planar invasion.

[Threash]

They are at 13.

[Ard]

13 or 15, I can't remember. And lest anyone go into "oh hell, class unlock quests" panic mode, they're some of the easiest quests ever.  Talk to a guy, do a rift invasion, collect a shard, click on the quest item and kill the mob that spawns.  ta-dum.  It took me all of an hour and a half to unlock all the souls because I started in the middle of a planar invasion.

Yeah, the unlocks used to be a lot more of a pain in the ass, and they stepped way back from that idea.  I'm hoping it was in the interest of player accessibility, because it'd mostly mean they realized they were going down the wrong path, and aren't going to go revert it back into stupidity right before launch.  They still have time to royally screw everything up though.

[kildorn]

They've been making the soul unlocks easier and easier (though still to note for guardians: everyone BUT mages are in Sanctum. Mages are in the college in silverpine), but at least it's no longer "open a rift to the plane of death and kill an X" which caused a lot of people to look for death rifts that didn't exist. And they no longer want you to click and channel an item on the corpse afterwords, either.

[Sobelius]

Allowing you to unlock all the souls after level 13, plus the PvP soul for a mere 2500 Favor, is totally playing to what i think is one of the game's main strengths: mixing and combining tons of different abilities nearly a-la-carte to create a playstyle you like.

I've enjoyed tinkering around with the class/soul abilities and combining them in different ways to see how well I avoided the land of gimp, or not.

[AcidCat]

I'm curious if people are willing to make predictions. 

I think it will keep a good number of players occupied until Guild Wars 2 and The Old Republic. It will probably find enough long term subs to be profitable and find its own niche, but I really don't see this game having any kind of breakout success.

[Draegan]

Allowing you to unlock all the souls after level 13, plus the PvP soul for a mere 2500 Favor, is totally playing to what i think is one of the game's main strengths: mixing and combining tons of different abilities nearly a-la-carte to create a playstyle you like.

I've enjoyed tinkering around with the class/soul abilities and combining them in different ways to see how well I avoided the land of gimp, or not.

PVP soul talents require certain ranks to unlock though, which is difference between the two subsets.

[Threash]

Allowing you to unlock all the souls after level 13, plus the PvP soul for a mere 2500 Favor, is totally playing to what i think is one of the game's main strengths: mixing and combining tons of different abilities nearly a-la-carte to create a playstyle you like.

I've enjoyed tinkering around with the class/soul abilities and combining them in different ways to see how well I avoided the land of gimp, or not.

PVP soul talents require certain ranks to unlock though, which is difference between the two subsets.

Which doesn't prevent you from getting it as your third soul for the zero and maybe five point abilities.  The ones i looked at were pretty damn decent, clerics got 15% less chance to be crit and a detaunt from 5 points in theirs.

[Draegan]

Allowing you to unlock all the souls after level 13, plus the PvP soul for a mere 2500 Favor, is totally playing to what i think is one of the game's main strengths: mixing and combining tons of different abilities nearly a-la-carte to create a playstyle you like.

I've enjoyed tinkering around with the class/soul abilities and combining them in different ways to see how well I avoided the land of gimp, or not.

PVP soul talents require certain ranks to unlock though, which is difference between the two subsets.

Which doesn't prevent you from getting it as your third soul for the zero and maybe five point abilities.  The ones i looked at were pretty damn decent, clerics got 15% less chance to be crit and a detaunt from 5 points in theirs.

Correct.

As for predictions, I think this game will have the same box sale success as Aion, WAR or AOC and I think it will be more successful at keeping players around.

[Sobelius]

but I really don't see this game having any kind of breakout success.

For that to happen you'd have to have your in-game experiences/achievements/screenshots/in-game rants automatically posted to your Facebook status update. Then all your non-MMO "friends" would want to find out how to get in on it, and voila, not 12 million subs but 120 million...

Seriously, though, if any MMO manages to tie into Facebook and it gets into some kind of mainstream viral vibe...

[shiznitz]

Why is this hard?  Every time your character levels, a screenshot goes to Facebook.

[Sky]

As for predictions, I think this game will have the same box sale success as Aion, WAR or AOC and I think it will be more successful at keeping players around.

Agreed. It might even manage more box sales with the media blitz and release timing. I think Scott will be just fine, and it's no surprise that it's another mmo I won't be playing, hah.

Facebook app that ties into the achievements, too. "Darth Rifthore just killed the big bad guy" Or put in a facebook app for the armory and skill calcs, etc.

[Nebu]

Their timing seems good.  Cataclysm doesn't seem to be everyone's cup of tea and may earn them some sales that they hadn't anticipated.

[Modern Angel]

I think it'll be as successful as LOTRO is. 300kish after the fervor dies down, staying at that rate fairly steadily. More before GW2 but I think GW2 is going to bleed a lot of subs (even with it being free to play) from even WoW.

[sam, an eggplant]

GW2 aims to advance the genre. They aren't playing it safe following the market leader's footprints. I fervently hope that ambition is rewarded.

If Rifts does well while GW2 stalls, we will be inundated with highly polished soulless dikuclones until the heat death of the universe, all competing to offer the easiest possible transition from WoW by effectively cloning it with slightly different but eerily familiar skins.

Gahh.

[Sobelius]

Why is this hard?  Every time your character levels, a screenshot goes to Facebook.

I'm guessing it's not. Just am not aware of anyone making a big push tying the VL social aspect of MMOs to the RL social juggernaut that's eating the internet-connected world. It would have to be more than just screenies/thumbnails though.

Or maybe it wouldn't work after all. I'm thinking of the stereotypical straight guy who's already insecure enough about his manhood that he wouldn't dare post a screenshot of Lolzcat, his little female elf rouge (sic) with the pink ponytail and butterfly facial markings.  

[WindupAtheist]

Trion has enough money to go toe-to-toe with anyone, and as far as I'm concerned WoW is a middle-aged and visibly stumbling game full of players just waiting to jump ship. If Rift doesn't sustain at least 750k to 1m subscribers then I'll regard it as having fumbled a golden opportunity.

[Tannhauser]

Yeah, I think they have an opportunity.  Cata has turned off a lot of players and this game is coming out in a nice spot.  But I don't see over 500k subs past the first month.  I'd say 1mil box sales.  This game is very similar to WAR in look and feel but not as sucky. 

[Amaron]

You'd think so, but Rifts had a $50m budget, so it will take around 350k subs to be profitable in the first year.

No $50 mil is actually maybe less than I expected.   That's cheap as hell for what they've got going on here.    If they had 350k sustained subs for years that would only be considered wildly successful I'd think.   Frankly I expect them to do better than that.

[sam, an eggplant]

You might be right. It remains to be seen if not being a steaming pile of busted-ass scheisse is enough to succeed these days.

Based upon my own experience, Rifts will crash and burn. I was hugely disappointed by its severe lack of ambition and part of me wants that. But I don't claim to have tapped into the MMO zeitgeist.

Maybe the battle we should all care about isn't between dikuclones like Rifts and innovators like GW2. Maybe it's between big-budget AAA+ titles and disposable social media tween trash.

[Draegan]

Did you get a chance to play GW2?

[sam, an eggplant]

No, I'm just buying into the hype. They're telling me what I want to hear.

[Amaron]

Maybe the battle we should all care about isn't between dikuclones like Rifts and innovators like GW2. Maybe it's between big-budget AAA+ titles and disposable social media tween trash.

Well I think it's actually a big deal for diku haters.    It could be a market changer because I think we'll see them stealing a healthy chunk of people who actually like WoW.    That means at least potentially that when something like GW2 comes out it won't be competing with RIFT really.   It'll be trying to suck in a totally different chunk of the MMO pie.  Then you've got SW TOR.   

WoW won't fall because they aren't actually even trying and when the going gets tough they'll just put in a bit of effort and suck in a bunch of people again.   We could see the market move to a multi player situation though and that would be a large improvement.

[Chimpy]

It is obvious that sam is not going to buy the game and is going to lambast it in any way he can. Christ, he has continually called it "Rifts" which means he has not played it enough to see the giant ass logo that has no plurals in it popping in his face at launch.

I think the game will do fairly well. But my enthusiasm for it pretty much wore off as I play these games with friends and none of my friends seem interested in it anymore because they never got a single beta invite even though they signed up the first day they announced the community beta thing. Plus all the group of people I play with are in tight money spots for the most part, so 60+15 a month is hard to swallow for them.

[Kageru]

Why is it more fun to play a game when I don't understand what half the stuff in it does?  Artifacts, that slot in the character screen at the bottom center (what does that thing do and what am I supposed to put in there?), rifts, guardian invasions, and so on.

Novelty has a value because people get bored. My WoW guild has lost a lot of people. Not so much because Cataclysm dashed their hopes (though a lot of the healers are close) but because theirs not the motivation to climb the hill again after the latest gear reset. The game doesn't feel new or fresh.

I mean even if there was a "perfect" MMO eventually you are going to want to try something new.

[Draegan]

It is obvious that sam is not going to buy the game and is going to lambast it in any way he can. Christ, he has continually called it "Rifts" which means he has not played it enough to see the giant ass logo that has no plurals in it popping in his face at launch.

I think the game will do fairly well. But my enthusiasm for it pretty much wore off as I play these games with friends and none of my friends seem interested in it anymore because they never got a single beta invite even though they signed up the first day they announced the community beta thing. Plus all the group of people I play with are in tight money spots for the most part, so 60+15 a month is hard to swallow for them.

There are still deals going on for 20% off the digital version right now. 

[Threash]

You can also get the founders discount and pay 10 bucks a month if you pre order right?

[Nebu]

I mean even if there was a "perfect" MMO eventually you are going to want to try something new.

I think that's the key to a successful expansion.  It makes the game feel both new (fresh) and familiar at the same time.  I felt that WotLK did an excellent job of this with WoW.  

People have a lot invested in their WoW personnas.  They may flutter away to try a new game, but it will have to offer something significantly better to earn their continued loyalty.  


Edit: I realize that I'm stating the obvious here...

[Merusk]

You can also get the founders discount and pay 10 bucks a month if you pre order right?

Yes and no.  You get a discount, but it only goes down to $10 a month if you pay for 6 months.  Month-to-month is still the same price as your average joe. http://www.riftgame.com/en/products/subscriptions.php

[Dark_MadMax]

Trion has enough money to go toe-to-toe with anyone, and as far as I'm concerned WoW is a middle-aged and visibly stumbling game full of players just waiting to jump ship. If Rift doesn't sustain at least 750k to 1m subscribers then I'll regard it as having fumbled a golden opportunity.

Just what exactly Rift has that WoW does or LotRo does not? From pve point of view rift is just bland clone. All instances look the same (dark caves), quests are of the most generic variety. Both WoW and Lotro are better in this regard. Rift has nothing new or superior to offer. Its polished and its not a trainwreck but I dont see it pulling subscribers from current games. There seems to be quite  a few beta testers in rift who never played wow. So I think  there will be some core audience for it. But I highly doubt it would be anywhere north of 500k past first 6 months