SWTOR Goes F2P in the Fall

[HaemishM]

Press Release

So what we all thought would happen is going to happen. SWTOR goes F2P. Color me shocked.

Still don't care to play it.

Also a press release on the main site.

[luckton]

Honestly, I really did hope that this would be the game take me away from WoW, but they tripped up royally on everything that we've previously discussed.  F2P was the next logical step, but I didn't think it would happen this quick.

[Paelos]

It certainly defied all expectations.

My guess is they release this F2P thing either right before or right after the end of September, depending on how they want to attack MoP.

[LC]

Just another shitty unoriginal AAA mmo being tossed into the F2P chum bucket. When will they learn?

[Kail]

Ugh, that "January 2013 predictions" thread is almost tragic to read now.  "They won't hurt us, they love us!  Really!"

I wonder how WAR keeps dodging this bullet, though.

[Evildrider]

According to the earnings call 40% of the people that unsubbed said they would come back if it was f2p.  I bet that was the big driving force for this. 

Me personally, I don't care.  If they keep pushing out content I'll still play and stay subbed.  Between this and MWO I'll be good MMO wise.

[Sjofn]

I wonder how WAR keeps dodging this bullet, though.

F2P isn't really a bullet WAR should be dodging. F2P, like it or not, seems to bring in a crapton of money for flagging games, WAR should be dying to go F2P. Just another way they're doing it wrong, I guess. 

[Paelos]

I didn't think there was a chance in hell this would go F2P in a year. The numbers just didn't support it, and I think they still don't. However, I think they are out of ideas and they are willing to take one last shot at this thing before they turn out the lights. If they don't see some action on the F2P thing by Q1 of 2013, I think they'll stop supporting the game.

[Shatter]

"Since launch we have been adding new content and refining The Old Republic at a breakneck pace "

Yall that content has been mind blowing 

[Rokal]

I didn't think there was a chance in hell this would go F2P in a year. The numbers just didn't support it, and I think they still don't. However, I think they are out of ideas and they are willing to take one last shot at this thing before they turn out the lights. If they don't see some action on the F2P thing by Q1 of 2013, I think they'll stop supporting the game.

I think they recognize that the game has the potential to do much better as a F2P game based on what they built. It's the model the game should have launched with. Delaying F2P to try to make the sub model work would only cost them more subscribers and momentum.

Ultimately this is good news for EA/Bioware and gamers alike. Eagerly looking forward to the conversion.

[Evildrider]

They are still over their 500k sub goal and going to f2p is definitely a better way to go now then wait.  Turbine managed to salvage and bring back DDO from the dead with F2P and LOTRO is still going strong after the switch. 

[Phred]

They are still over their 500k sub goal and going to f2p is definitely a better way to go now then wait.  Turbine managed to salvage and bring back DDO from the dead with F2P and LOTRO is still going strong after the switch. 

Wonder if they are smart enough to adopt the Turbine model where your main quest is f2p but you need to buy quest packs for the planets. That would do them well if they make a long, grindy way to earn points to spend in the store.

[Trippy]

They are adding F2P as an option. Subscriptions will still exist, so it's going to be a hybrid model like how City of Heroes works right now.

[Kageru]

They are still over their 500k sub goal and going to f2p is definitely a better way to go now then wait.  Turbine managed to salvage and bring back DDO from the dead with F2P and LOTRO is still going strong after the switch. 

Last population count by that Serpentine guy, who puts a lot of effort into it, was in the 200-300k range. Though merging the servers did a lot to recover some population and drastically slow the bleed. Which is why they should have done that ASAP when the decline was staring them in the face.

f2p won't change the fact that the core game design fault of using expensive levelling content with limited replay value as their main investment was not sustainable. The idea that f2p is going to make that model more viable and they'll have regular and substantive content additions is laughable. Still, I don't think they have any other option.

[Evildrider]

Earnings call says they are over 500k but under 1 mil. 

[UnSub]

The pure subscription model (plus box cost!) is pretty much dead moving forward. WoW is the exception for historical reasons and even that has a cash shop of sorts.

SWOR didn't go F2P because of gameplay, it went F2P because it was too expensive, players don't hang around for as long in MMOs as they used to (especially when you can jump to a F2P title for a similar experience) and BioWare spent too long drinking their own Kool-Aid. I firmly believe that SWOR could have been an excellent game, polished in most areas and it would still be in this position.

Instead, it was 'merely' a good game that lacked in a few areas. But it cost too much to get there.

[Outlawedprod]

Secret footage from SWTOR offices after announcement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMzuiSEH0

[Margalis]

"Since launch we have been adding new content and refining The Old Republic at a breakneck pace "

Rapid deceleration can break necks.

 

Anyway 500k was never the goal, they told investors that if they only got 500k it would have been a bad investment. And that's 500k a year for FIVE TO TEN years.

[Rokal]

SWOR didn't go F2P because of gameplay, it went F2P because it was too expensive, players don't hang around for as long in MMOs as they used to (especially when you can jump to a F2P title for a similar experience) and BioWare spent too long drinking their own Kool-Aid.

I disagree. They invested most of their resources into non-repeatable leveling content that had a definitive ending. Where was the incentive to keep subscribing when the best part of the game and the only thing that set it apart from other MMOs was over?

f2p won't change the fact that the core game design fault of using expensive levelling content with limited replay value as their main investment was not sustainable. The idea that f2p is going to make that model more viable and they'll have regular and substantive content additions is laughable. Still, I don't think they have any other option.

According to this they are giving away the leveling content and class stories for free. That surprises me because this could have been the center of a very profitable/sustainable model for them. Give away the 1-50 non-class leveling content for free, give away the Act 1 class story content for free, ask people to pay $10 to permanently unlock Act 2 and another $10 for Act 3 for that class. Throw in some cosmetic armor and title and you have a pretty compelling package that actually feels worthwhile.

It would be more sustainable than the sub model because even diehard players that blow through every class story in a month will have shelled out $160 for it rather than the $20-$60 they'd have paid with the subscription model. That's assuming that the diehard player doesn't shell out for anything else either like convenience items, mounts, pets, etc. Under that model I could see myself spending ~$10 a month and feeling completely comfortable doing so.

I am unsure how SWTOR's F2P model will do based on what they've outlined so far, but chances are likely that future updates to the game will be larger and more frequent if the potential audience of paying customers is substantially larger than it was with the sub model. That they have most likely been working on the F2P conversion for a few months based on the Fall release date also helps explain why development speed has been so slow thus far.

[Soln]

This went F2P in less than a year.  In less than 3 Quarters.   Does anyone believe it will be around in the same shape or configuration 12 months after going F2P?  I think LotRO was the outlier for success. And they had DDO as a trial run.  BW/EA has...  EQ2 as a model for F2P?   /cue 

[Ingmar]

This went F2P in less than a year.  In less than 3 Quarters.   Does anyone believe it will be around in the same shape or configuration 12 months after going F2P?  I think LotRO was the outlier for success. And they had DDO as a trial run.  BW/EA has...  EQ2 as a model for F2P?   /cue 

Why not? It has more (and IMO better) content than LotRO did at this age, and certainly better gameplay.

[Evildrider]

The way they are doing their F2P option could work out well.  I mean if they manage to get new players to try the game and like it, those people may do a full sub. 

We also don't know what the store is going to have in it either.  I find most of my friends that play f2p stuff ended up spending more money then I do on a sub game.

[Venkman]

Comes down to whether they can get 20x the number of current players so the 5%* that will pay something will generate more revenue than the apparently-not-enough players paying a subscription fee right now.

* That's on the high side for social networking MTX games, but I honestly don't know if that is conservative or aggressive for the more core-targeted MMO audience. Could be people willing to download 18gb+ of data for a free game have a hire probably of investing more deeply than the casual passerby of a Flash-based in-browser game. Anyone have any data beyond anecdotal Turbine or SOE comments?

[Evildrider]

Other than the fact that DDO went from a dying game, that had no updates for a year, to a game that got regular updates and a brand new expansion.  It is safe to say that they made some money.

[Zetor]

Like I said in the graveyard thread, some of the things I see in the preliminary F2P matrix (specifically the weekly limit on WZs/FPs, as well as "reduced fast travel options" for non-subbers) have the potential to make me smolder with generic rage. Other than that? This may actually make me check out the game again at some point (though playing during the "please come back" weekend 2 weeks back left me with very negative impressions)

e: also, if SWTOR decided to nickel-and-dime people LOTRO-style with having to rebuy class stories / planets from the cash shop even if you originally bought the game, there would be blood. The situation is very different from lotro's, imo, as the main driving force of the game IS in the narrative/story.

[DayDream]

This is more a general question on failing MMO's in general, but does anyone have a bead on Experienced Dev-Studios vs. Brand New Dev-Studios vs. Game Success vs. Game Failure?  I wanna say that grabbing some investors and slapping a studio together out of random people, even if they're all individually as competent workers as those at an established studio, is a recipe for disaster.

On F2p, i feel like DDO's structure, with it's questing and instance gameplay style, really worked well as an F2P game and made for a good transition.  I enjoyed playing it a lot for a while, but i left because i was beginning to feel that it was getting too close to pay2win for my tastes.  Most people aren't gunna do that, i think.  I don't know how SWTOR is set up, but i doubt it will work as well or as cleanly.

It will be interesting to see if SWTOR's breadth helps it it's F2P chances.  I think DDO fills a much smaller gameplay niche, and is both helped and hurt in that.

[Numtini]

I'm surprised. I predicted it would flop, as it has, but that it wouldn't go F2P based on EA's past behavior with War. It didn't seem to be in the company's character. I'm wondering what will happen now with War and UO.

On F2P or more accurately cash shop games in general. LOTRO (and I assume DDO) are successful as cash shop because you can actually play the game out of the cash shop. Not 50% of the game or 80% of the game, but 100%. Yes, it costs money, and in some cases more money than subscribing, but you can play that way. Nobody else afaik has done that in a "F2P" conversion. We'll see what SWTOR does.

[Merusk]

I don't know.. I think this just says that the only reason WAR hasn't gone F2P is more about Gamesworkshop than any reluctance by EA.

UO has no reason to go F2P.  Nobody's going back to the game for free, there's been servers for that for years and what are you going to monetize?  Keeping it P2P keeps current players happy in their isolated little walled garden free of the riffraff.   F2P is a lose-lose with that one.

Still, I didn't expect this to go F2P for another year at least.  I thought they'd try to push-out some ill-conceived x-pack and flop THEN go for the f2p route with nickel-and-diming around classes & new playable races.

[Kageru]

On F2P or more accurately cash shop games in general. LOTRO (and I assume DDO) are successful as cash shop because you can actually play the game out of the cash shop.

That wasn't my experience with either of those games, the pay wall hits hard and early. And their definition of viable is probably a whole heap different from what EA / Bioware would consider worth bothering with. This is purely a desperation move because subs simply aren't a winning option for them.

[Lantyssa]

To be fair, I would pay to be a Jawa...

[Shannow]

To be fair, I would pay to be a Jawa...

I'm sure there's a certain set of people who'd pay you to be a Jawa.

[UnSub]

This is more a general question on failing MMO's in general, but does anyone have a bead on Experienced Dev-Studios vs. Brand New Dev-Studios vs. Game Success vs. Game Failure? 

Arguably the MMO industry's greatest successes came from slapping a bunch of enthusiastic rookies together. The first attempt has generally been the best from any studio (at least in the AAA space).

[Amaron]

F2P Matrix: http://www.swtor.com/free/features

Only way I can see this being good for the game is if it tricks EA into actually spending money on it again.  I expect a true EA style crash and burn here though.  They'll cut development time, charge outrageous prices in the cash shop and then blame it all on WoW when they fail.

[Nebu]

F2P Matrix: http://www.swtor.com/free/features

Only way I can see this being good for the game is if it tricks EA into actually spending money on it again.  I expect a true EA style crash and burn here though.  They'll cut development time, charge outrageous prices in the cash shop and then blame it all on WoW when they fail.

This looks like reason enough to uninstall the game.  Sad, because the game did have potential... all apparently wasted.

[Lakov_Sanite]

huh? even free im not gonna play it but their f2p model seems fairly reasonable.