Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - From Software

[Trippy]

gg

[Jeff Kelly]

Congratulations,
edited for spoiler

[Falconeer]

Spoiler, WTF?

[Trippy]

as off topic as my previous post but more constructive.

The designer of Celeste actually suggested a few "assist mode" tweaks to Sekiro which would make the game easier for people without removing the challenge. Like for example unlimited resurrects, a game speed setting and more.

It's actually very ineresting to hear them talk about the game design philosphy for Celeste because if you play the game how the designers intended it it can be very hard and the "B sides" of the levels offer an even higher challenge. They also added a lot of tweakables to the game that they call "assist mode" and where you can modify game mechanics to reduce the challenge level of the game, like for example adding an additional jump, increasing the stamina etc. They have talked at length about their reasons for adding assists, how this had to approach it, why they think it is not only necessary but actually a very positive thing. They aso talked about how they needed to change their philosophy because their intent was to make a hard game and so they had to overcome their own preconceptions at some point (he called it "letting go")

It's an interesting read

I didn't realize Celeste had those features but I'm still never ever going to play that game even though I kind of want to follow the story cause I hate platformers, am horrible at them, and Celeste has one of the most frustrating level designs I've ever watched people play. So yeah, maybe he should take his own advice and make his game even easier to play.

[schild]

i absolutely *hate* the levels in Celeste

[Jeff Kelly]

Spoiler, WTF?

[Ironwood]

I agree, it's about as spoiley as someone backing up towards the edge of the camera in a horror movie ;  you know what's coming.

However, to expand on my post a little bit :  Beat the asshole and to be brutally honest, I'm not entirely sure why, except that I really DID learn his moves.  I also hit him with not one, not two, but THREE of his lightning strikes, so that was fun.  Lightning reversal is great.

However, what's more interesting about it is how the boss fights affected my head ;  much much more than Lady Butterfly, I found it took me a good 20 minutes or so to reacclimatize myself to actually playing the 'real' game after I'd beaten him.  I'd forgotten the 'normal' controls, how to sneak and rope and fight and all that shit.  It was very weird.  The boss fights program your reactions to such a strong degree, it's only later that you realise the fights are, in fact, an entirely different game, which may be why it's bothering people so much.  Also, a harder game though I suspect that goes without saying.

I also want to say that for the most part you'll watch videos or get help that seems to make sense, but just doesn't work for you ;  my advice on those would be to stop trying ;  I've found a lot of the chaps have interesting strats, most of which work, but when they don't it's usually down to your own playstyle being unable to cope with it and it just ends up even more frustrating.

Anyway, now chibbing folks with guns, so a normal Kilmarnock Friday night.

[Jeff Kelly]

Can someone tell me if you're technically able to deflect all enemy attacks that are not perilous attacks (so all attacks without the symbol)? Game doesn't tell me and it seems to me like there are normal attacks that you can't deflect. Maybe I'm simply terrible at it and have never hit the correct window even after a few dozen tries or I shouldn't try to deflect because it is simply not possible.

[Ironwood]

As far as I can tell from my own play and watching all the nutters, you can pretty much deflect absolutely everything.

I just watched the world record guy who did the game in 33 mins.  He only 'cheated' once and his quicksilver like speed on the bosses made me feel truly stupid.

[Jeff Kelly]

 has this overhead attack/slash that I was never able to deflect once. It's not a perilous attack (no symbol) and if it hits it takes off most of your health or fills up your posture bar if you block. I've tried it a lot but no matter how often I tried he always hit me. At some point I stopped bothering and dodged it.

I couldn't really tell you if I'm just really bad at timing the deflect or if it is simply not possible to deflect the attack. Only thing I know is that I never managed to do it even once and simply dodging away seemed like the safer option.

[Ironwood]

The Fextralife video I just watched seems to suggest that's deflectable.  Though it must be hard, a fair few times, as you say, his posture goes RIGHT up.

It's pretty moot tho, since you should sneak his first orb and then your mate in blue should be the chibber for most of the fight.

[Jeff Kelly]

I don't have the patience for it.

It would have meant to pull the trash one by one and also away from the NPC (he triggers if an enemy or the boss gets to close to him) then wait until the boss loses aggro, then sneaking up behind him and then triggering the NPC.

[Ironwood]

It's quicker than a single death and won't result in one.

[Falconeer]

I didn't sneak on him as I didn't think I could. I skipped the first mobs, ran to his area, backstabbed one of the shielders, chaos ensues, I ran towards the blue guy who draws attention. While he is being maimed, I proceed to kill EVERY mob as fast as I can (my personal hint: thrust leads to insta deathblow on almost everyone in that area). When everyone is dead so is the blue guy and me and the mini-boss are ready to duel undisturbed. This whole setup takes about 45 seconds to clear the arena, not bad.

Also, not sure if I tried to deflect that but I agree that everything in the game seems deflectable except for the red-marked actions.

[Jeff Kelly]

You can actually deflect that attack. Saw a video. I’m just that bad. Did it the way Ironwood suggested and it was indeed incredibly easy. Blue dude even survived.

Gyoubu (horse dude) was incredibly easy with firecrackers and the grappling hook attack, took me two tries. Lady Butterfly seems doable, I’ve managed to get to Hase two a few times now. I ran out of snap seeds though. I also have no idea how to deal with the glowing things in phase two yet.

Boar was also not that tough.

Maybe I’m getting the hang of things after all.

I just wish crouch wasn’t on L3, the way I play when I’m stressed means I will always unintentionally click in the stick and crouch which fucks up the whole fight

[Jeff Kelly]

Even though I’m obviously still rather bad at the game I can’t put it down. I’ve played nothing else all week and I’m obsessed enough with it that I read up on and watch a lot of stuff on the game as well.

It’s a pretty great game

[Falconeer]

Forget about snap seeds, you'll only get frustrated if you run out of them before killing her. Alsom they seem totally unnecessary. When she summons the ghosts, just run like a mad man in wide circles and do nothing else, they will go away after about 30 seconds not without transforming in heat seeking projectiles, which you are still going to avoid just by keeping the running up. After that, back to bashing the old lady.

[Ironwood]

I also have no idea how to deal with the glowing things in phase two yet.

There are pillars in that room for a reason.


Edit : Corrupted Monk down.  There are consumables that make it so much easier, but what I hate is that it doesn't tell you that and, when you practice, you can run out.  Fortunately, they are farmable....

[Jeff Kelly]

Sugars don’t really last very long don’t they?

[Ironwood]

No.  Which is why they give you a skill later to extend them.

[Falconeer]

Who is corrupted monk? Senpou temple from the Castle Reservoir? I am not there yet, but that's exciting cause I believe we might have taken two different paths. I mean,


That took me a while, a long long while.

[Ironwood]

Yes, I've killed him and his second fight with his mate.  The second one was miles easier.

The Monk is in Mibu Village.  He's a total wankstain.  You can also fight him again later....

[Cyrrex]

So I actually started over.  May have mentioned it earlier, but I was on my son's steam account, which was getting annoying.  So now I am doing the family share thing, which is 2% less annoying.

Anyway, restarting confirmed I was actually getting better.  Trash mobs barely pose a threat but are still fun to murder.  First boss went down after two attempts instead of after two and a half hours.  Made it nearly back to where I left off, having only died once instead of goddamn uncountable times.  First spear guy will probably give me some trouble, I imagine.

I will probably never get as far or as good as the rest of you bastards, but there is no doubt that this game is fucking amazing.

[Falconeer]

Oh I suck so bad. I keep going because I am very stubborn and because I adore From's games even when I am supposed to hate them (wrong setting, no shields, no weapon and armour variety), and I absolutely want to see what comes next, next area, next boss. There are no other game worlds that suck me in like what these people have been doing since 2009. But I am 45 hours in and I doubt I am even halfway, so there's that.

[Ironwood]

I'm getting good. 

However, I'm almost at the end and, frankly, the game is showing it's ass.  There's just not enough of it there.  The latter half just turns into frustrating boss fight after boss fight and it re-uses almost all the areas for little good reason.

It looks like a game that was rushed, rather than the Souls progression.  Don't get me wrong, still loving the fuck out of it, but when you're basically tooling around the same very small area all the time getting sodomised, there's eventually a limit.

[Falconeer]

Interestingly, that's where the lowest score on Metacritic is coming from. In a sea of 90% scores, the lowest score (an 80%) was from a Japanese magazine that quoted exactly your reasons. To me, it's fantastic and I am in awe at the world once again. The abandoned dungeon and the depths, while not new, were breathtaking.

From Soft always saved money on cutscenes (their lack of endings is legendary) but I never ever felt like anything they did was rushed so this would be a first, especially considering you would imagine them having a proven formula to craft these games after ten years. It would be great to have some development insight.

[Jeff Kelly]

Beat Lady Butterfly and I’m now at Genichiro (that’s Japanese for fucking fucker, right?) or alternatively Seven Spears. Been away from the game for the weekend and nailed two bosses in the first half hour of my play session.

You can’t walk ten yards without bumping into a miniboss though and it already annoys me. You can’t really explore anywhere.

[Ironwood]

On the other hand, the boss fight with the second bull Sukurus is just fucking hilarious.

Suffice to say, there's a funny ezmode to him.

[Jeff Kelly]

Speedrun of this Game is already sub 50 minutes

[Trippy]

Speedrun of this Game is already sub 50 34 minutes

FIFY

[Ironwood]

Yeah, that was the one I was talking about a page back.  Under 34 mins (I think it was 33.27 or some shit) and he only used ONE glitch.

There's also the stream I was watching last night, the guy who got up to (and past) Genichiro without taking a hit.

Not.  One.  Hit.

It was fucking STUPID to watch.  I surely wish I was even remotely able to play.

[Jeff Kelly]

The route I watched was

Chained Ogre, Gyoubu, skipping Flaming Bull, Genichiro, Corrupted Monk, Guardian Ape, , ,
in 42 minutes.

[Jeff Kelly]

Also shoutout to the biggest enemy in the game: the camera.

Souls camera was never that great and Sekiro's is better but fighting in enclosed spaces still sucks and you still get unlocked quite often.

[Falconeer]

No one cares but let me state it for the record anyway: I hate speed runs. Never watched one, never will.

[Jeff Kelly]

For me it's more professional interest. From my perspective as a programmer it's interesting to see how those games work and how people break them.