f13.net forums - SO's: replace early or add with slots

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May 05, 2024, 08:00:58 AM

we're back, baby

Just hit 22 over the weekend so I can now start buying and using lvl 25 SO's, but all my major powers are already slotted with ~lvl 21 DO's. Considering that a SO seems to cost about 3x the same level DO, do you all thing it would be better to go ahead and blow 250k influence replacing most of my DO's or wait and just buy SO's odd levels when you add slots?

I really haven't bothered to try and figure out how much Influence you make per level, but don't want to get to lvl 29 and suddenly not be able to upgrade my SO's b/c I bought too many of em. Anyone done and rough back of the envelope figuring?

Probably no right answer but curious what people think.

Xilren
PS I did replace almost all my Endurance Reducer DO's with SO's just b/c I'm such an endurance hog.

From what I've heard you'll be doing nothing but pharming anyhow for the next few levels just to get your so's in order, and then maintaining them.

Personally, I'd just go ahead and do the SO change now, since you're going to be replacing your DO's wholesale anyway. There is the added bonus of a noticable difference between the two.

Experience debt is your friend. More time spent in level means more influence to spend later. I keep telling myself this when I play my blasters...

It depends. :)

At the crossover points when you start using DOs and then SOs (12, 22, and then 30 (for the rest of your SOs if you aren't mutant or magic until they fix the bugs)), you should upgrade right away. However, it's always better to fill out a new slot with an SO first, and then replace your DOs with SOs. As you gain more influence, then start replacing DOs as soon as you can. On all levels where you gain new enhancement slots instead of new powers, remember to stop spending influence about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way the level prior so you'll have influence to buy the SOs for those new slots.

Otherwise, it's generally not worth it to follow this scheme within a "tier" of a specific type of enhancement. For example, when at 27 you can start using 30s (again, for people except mutant until the bug is fixed), you shouldn't try to replace all your 25++s with 30s. Save your influence, put 30s in the new slots that open up, and instead upgrad the old slots at level 28 to get 30+s.

Once you hit around level 32 or so, all of this becomes moot. You will have tons of influence and you'll be able to buy L35 SOs for all of your slots and be able to upgrade them every level. Pretty soon you'll be regularly trashing generics and DOs to save inv slots for an SOs that drop (because you won't be wanting to run back to the store every time you fill up on loot just for the influence).

Bruce

Quote from: SirBruce

What bug are you referring to? I was a mutant based Tanker and was able to fully upgrade at each level (using Penny at level 30 plus of course).

Upgrade, man, upgrade. A Single Origin enhancement is ALWAYS better than a Double Origin enhancement. If you are level 28, your 25th level Single Origin enhancement will still give you more benefit than a 31st level Double-Origin enhancement.

Here's some notes I took from the beta board to give you an idea of why:

Quote

On What Those Enhancement Slot Numbers Mean
A Generic enhancement number equal to your character's security level grants a 10% bonus to that power in that facet.

A Dual-Origin enhancement is 2x as powerful as a Generic enhancement. So a Dual-origin enhancement number equal to your character's security level would be 20%.

A Single-Origin enhancement is 2x as powerful as a Dual-Origin Enhancement or 4x as powerful as a Generic Enhancement. So a Single-Origin enhancement equal to your character's security level would be 40%.

On Enhancement numbers above or below your security level
Enhancements higher than your security level grant you more %.

Enhancements below your security level grant you less %.

According to Zalf

The difference is 1% per level for Generic, 2% per level for Dual-Origin, or 4% per level for Single-Origin. So a Generic enhancement 3 levels under your security level would be (10 - 3 =) 7%.

The range of acceptable enhancement can be looked at as -3 to +3 of your current level.
Below -3 (current level -4) and your enhancement stops working.
Above +3 (current level +4) and you can't slot the enhancement.

So if you're level 25 with a level 25 SO enhancement, that's a 40% enhancement to that power. If you're level 25 with a lvl 25 DO enhancement, that's only a 20% enhancement to that power.

It's actually a little less. The hint guide quotes some different numers, but it's more a matter of where that 20% and 40% are applied in the formula. The actual benefit they attempt to add to that part of the formula is the full 20% or 40%, but what you get is a little less because of how the formula works.

Now, if you're level 28 and have a lvl 25 SO enhancement, it'll be attempting to confer 28% (40 reduced by 12 for being 3 levels under you before it's turned into the percentage influence result) enhancement power. While the best that a DO lvl 31 enhancement can give you is a 26% enhancement (base 20 increased by 6 for being 3 levels higher than you).

As you're just level 22 and grabbing lvl 25 SO enhancements, that's a whopping 52% (40 plus 12 for being 3 levels above you) boost for each one you slot. (The end effect is reduced through the formula, but it's there.)

One more thing to keep in mind is that there's an invisible "cap" in place to prevent you from boosting anything too far. This cap is increased as you continue to level, and generally shouldn't be hit except in extreme cases. Can't tell you where it is, exactly, as it's the same cap that prevents you from stacking too many buffs of the same type. This nebulous cap really chafes for the power gamer within, as there's absolutely no in-game feedback you've hit it other than a marked reduction in expected effectiveness.

Quote from: boley

What bug are you referring to? I was a mutant based Tanker and was able to fully upgrade at each level (using Penny at level 30 plus of course).

I think the bug he is referring to is that Penny opens up at levle 27, where as you dont ever seem to get the missions to open up the other vendors untill level 30 (giving most mutants that extra 3 level bonus on effectiveness) and the fact that other then the Mutant and Magic vendors, all the other vendors have a nasty habit of being spawn camped by level 38-40 villian packs. Not fun to come running up to your vendor just to get utterly slammed by 5 or 6 Crey Tanks.

Quote from: boley

Quote from: SirBruce

What bug are you referring to? I was a mutant based Tanker and was able to fully upgrade at each level (using Penny at level 30 plus of course).

!. Penny (Mutant) can be used before level 30. 27, maybe even sooner. This will be corrected.

2. Serafina (Magic) doesn't have any 30s so going to her won't help until 32. This too will be corrected.

Bruce

PS - As for being near "packs" of villians, Penny is certainly the safest, but they are all pretty safe. The only one that has villians spawn within aggro range is Mark IV (tech). The Science and Magic NPCs may have 5th column nearby, but usually far enough away, and Natural is under a bridge almost as safe as Penny.

Switching to SO's as soon as you can afford to for your prime powers is a huge help. They are roughly twice as good as DO so for every DO you replace its like getting another slot worth of power.

When I first went from DO to SO I was SHOCKED at how much of an improvement things like end reduction did after I changed. It really opens things up for aura heavy classes.

Kaid