AOC- PvP Info

[HaemishM]

The Gamespot Download Manager is shit. Ultra shitty shit shit shit. Downloading using the Internode thing. Might actually be done by tomorrow.

[Triforcer]

I'm getting 200 kbps from http://www.ausgamers.com/files/download/html/35188, if that helps.

[Signe]

Free Download Manager might even be faster.  Wish that Funcom one was still around.   

Hey!  Try this, the free one:  http://rapidshare.com/files/108207123/aocpvp20080415.zip

[HaemishM]

I got it using the Free Download Manager and the Internode files over night. I'd tell you what I think of it, but  .

[tmp]

I got it using the Free Download Manager and the Internode files over night. I'd tell you what I think of it, but  .

The NDA for PvP beta was lifted on 19:00 GMT (3PM EST and noon PST or something like that). Spill the beans.

(source)

[Triforcer]

I'm still downloading (thanks for sending me the key yesterday at 2 P.M., Funcom).  Should be in tonight. 

[grunk]

If you are on a pve server does that eliminate you from enjoying the pvp sieges and such?

Does being on a pve server just mean, that the only thing ill miss, is me getting ganked at a quest giver by someone 20 levels higher then me?

I am kinda in the middle, i wana have my pvp content but i wana enjoy the pve... i dont want to have to deal with bullshit basically but as of now, my rl friends wana do the FFA thang... and me being something of a pve whore, kinda on the fence.

[rk47]

I think joining PVP server and actually hitting the level cap means a higher level of accomplishment than doing it in pure PVE. And in the off-chance of server character transfers they're not gonna let you hop your character from PVE to PVP either.

[Signe]

People are going nuts over the FP AoC beta invite for subscribers.  They're releasing 5K twice a day, until 50K are gone, I tihnk.  Evidently, they're going extremely fast.  Like a minute or so for each batch.  People are screaming that it's not fair that Funcom is making them pay for beta. (they scream this every time FP has a subscriber give away)  I'm bored waiting for my grocery delivery and all the hate and bitterness is so fucking amusing.  It's like they put this together to amuse me in what should be a boring morning of waiting and laundry.

Thank you, bitter gamers of the world.  I appreciate the effort! 

[Nebu]

I think joining PVP server and actually hitting the level cap means a higher level of accomplishment than doing it in pure PVE. And in the off-chance of server character transfers they're not gonna let you hop your character from PVE to PVP either.

Reminder #76983:  These are games.  There are no "accomplishments" beyond having fun. 

This has been a public service reminder.

[Sky]

You say it so much nicer than I do, Neb.

[Triforcer]

I think joining PVP server and actually hitting the level cap means a higher level of accomplishment than doing it in pure PVE. And in the off-chance of server character transfers they're not gonna let you hop your character from PVE to PVP either.

Reminder #76983:  These are games.  There are no "accomplishments" beyond having fun. 

This has been a public service reminder.

Sure, "accomplishment" is an inherently fuzzy word, but I think we can agree that its "harder" to get to max level on a PvP server than on a PvE server.  Someone on a PvP server faces all the same PvE obstacles as a PvEer, plus the additional threat of roving gankers.  Nobody will ever agree whether that makes PvPers "better", but their experience is more difficult. 

[grunk]

I think joining PVP server and actually hitting the level cap means a higher level of accomplishment than doing it in pure PVE. And in the off-chance of server character transfers they're not gonna let you hop your character from PVE to PVP either.

Reminder #76983:  These are games.  There are no "accomplishments" beyond having fun. 

This has been a public service reminder.

Sure, "accomplishment" is an inherently fuzzy word, but I think we can agree that its "harder" to get to max level on a PvP server than on a PvE server.  Someone on a PvP server faces all the same PvE obstacles as a PvEer, plus the additional threat of roving gankers.  Nobody will ever agree whether that makes PvPers "better", but their experience is more difficult. 

Was WoW more fun on a pvp server? Maybe at first but once the BG's came that all went to shit and there was no reason to play on a pvp box.
dunno just thinking out loud, pve content has to have a steep curve, take lots of time. the content itself not because some asshat is ganking ppl near a quest giver. imo.

[Nebu]

Sure, "accomplishment" is an inherently fuzzy word, but I think we can agree that its "harder" to get to max level on a PvP server than on a PvE server.  Someone on a PvP server faces all the same PvE obstacles as a PvEer, plus the additional threat of roving gankers.  Nobody will ever agree whether that makes PvPers "better", but their experience is more difficult. 

Difficult?  I don't know.  It's different.  I've leveled toons to 70 on pvp and pve servers in WoW and found them to just be different play experiences.  Pvp servers offer a level of intensity that can make the pve grind more enjoyable at times, but also acts as a source of annoyance at others.  Getting to 70 on a PvP server isn't any kind of accomplishment, it's just a different play experience. 

[tmp]

Reminder #76983:  These are games.  There are no "accomplishments" beyond having fun. 

This has been a public service reminder.

Performing in the game better than someone else *is* source of fun for considerable part of the participants.

[Nebu]

Performing in the game better than someone else *is* source of fun for considerable part of the participants.

I disagree.  I think that the majority of players find winning their primary source of fun.  Sadly, winning has become more about farming gear and using the best macros than it has about being the better player.  I personally get more enjoyment from losing a close fight and knowing I've played well than I do from destroying a poorly geared noob.   I'm finding that my preference places me in the minority. 

[Triforcer]

Sure, "accomplishment" is an inherently fuzzy word, but I think we can agree that its "harder" to get to max level on a PvP server than on a PvE server.  Someone on a PvP server faces all the same PvE obstacles as a PvEer, plus the additional threat of roving gankers.  Nobody will ever agree whether that makes PvPers "better", but their experience is more difficult. 

Difficult?  I don't know.  It's different. 

Maybe we're just engaging in semantic quibbling, but on both PvP and PvE servers you have to get X amount of experience points to get to level 70.  Many of those points are gained through non-instanced questing or XP grinding. 

The ONLY variable differentiating PvP and PvE servers is the possibility of open-world PvP.  Time spent defending from ganks or respawning from quest-giver ganks, by definition, increases the time it takes to get to 70.  Again, I'm not making any moral claims about "better" or "more skill,"  but there is no way you can say that leveling to 70 on a PvP server isn't more difficult.  Its X versus X+1, unless there is a variable (another difference between the servers, like increased rate of XP gain on PvP servers) I'm missing. 

[Nebu]

Maybe we're just engaging in semantic quibbling...

I think you're correct here.  It takes longer and is potentially a LOT more annoying to level on a PvP server.  In that sense, it is indeed more difficult.  I guess my point was that none of this makes it an accomplishment.  The only goal in games is to have fun... they aren't built to accomplish anything unless your goal is to supplement your income with gold sales. 

[tmp]

I disagree.  I think that the majority of players find winning their primary source of fun.

That's generally what i meant when i said "performing better". To elaborate, since ranking players (based on their win/lose ratio, gear acquisition, exploration, whatever) is huge part of a game, it is certainly possible for the player to set their own goals and consequently, accomplish them (or not). The more difficult to meet goals imply 'better' "accomplishment". Similar to how becoming the best chess player in the country is  generally more of accomplishment than becoming the best player in town simply because it takes beating larger competition etc. It's not that 'games are for fun' eliminate accomplisment from them, it's the accomplishments themselves that serve (partially) as this 'fun'.

[Koyasha]

I think joining PVP server and actually hitting the level cap means a higher level of accomplishment than doing it in pure PVE. And in the off-chance of server character transfers they're not gonna let you hop your character from PVE to PVP either.

That depends on the penalty for losing in PvP.  I haven't looked into Age of Conan enough to know what their mechanics are, but I'm guessing it's a minor penalty if any, because it seems unlikely any game today would take the risk of making pvp penalties significant like Shadowbane or early UO did.  In a game where the penalty is minimal or nonexistent, I don't feel there's any real difference in accomplishment for hitting the level cap alone.  I think exp loss or item loss would be required in order for me to consider reaching highest level a greater accomplishment, because in a game where death is a minor inconvenience at best, all it means is you have the patience and/or stubbornness to stick it out.  This applies to PvE too - any PvE game which doesn't have exp loss means that as long as you are stubborn enough to keep at it, you will eventually get there because you can ONLY progress.

That's why I think the limitation on transferring from a PvE to a PvP server is stupid in say, WoW, while if a game like Lineage II where you have exp loss and the possibility for item loss (well, you can't lose items anymore, as long as you keep your PK count below 5, but that's not the way it used to be) had PvE servers where you could ONLY PvP during sieges or other specific areas, it would be a fair and reasonable limitation.  In one, as long as you are stubborn you cannot help but reach max level.  In the other, if you suck and keep getting killed, you'll not only never reach max level, you'll lose levels.

As for the accomplishment debate...to many of us, succeeding at something difficult, particularly that which others lack the ability to succeed at, is an accomplishment.  This is the same principle that leads people to call say, climbing a mountain that others have climbed before, an accomplishment.  It is difficult, and not everyone can succeed at it.  It is considered an accomplishment although it serves no useful purpose.  Now, whether a particular thing is difficult or not is a very good point to debate, but I think we can all agree that games are certainly capable of giving us difficult challenges that not everyone can succeed at, therefore there certainly is the possibility for accomplishment in games, just as there is in pretty much any field of anything that a person can do.

[grunk]

I think joining PVP server and actually hitting the level cap means a higher level of accomplishment than doing it in pure PVE. And in the off-chance of server character transfers they're not gonna let you hop your character from PVE to PVP either.

That depends on the penalty for losing in PvP.  I haven't looked into Age of Conan enough to know what their mechanics are, but I'm guessing it's a minor penalty if any, because it seems unlikely any game today would take the risk of making pvp penalties significant like Shadowbane or early UO did.  In a game where the penalty is minimal or nonexistent, I don't feel there's any real difference in accomplishment for hitting the level cap alone.  I think exp loss or item loss would be required in order for me to consider reaching highest level a greater accomplishment, because in a game where death is a minor inconvenience at best, all it means is you have the patience and/or stubbornness to stick it out.  This applies to PvE too - any PvE game which doesn't have exp loss means that as long as you are stubborn enough to keep at it, you will eventually get there because you can ONLY progress.

That's why I think the limitation on transferring from a PvE to a PvP server is stupid in say, WoW, while if a game like Lineage II where you have exp loss and the possibility for item loss (well, you can't lose items anymore, as long as you keep your PK count below 5, but that's not the way it used to be) had PvE servers where you could ONLY PvP during sieges or other specific areas, it would be a fair and reasonable limitation.  In one, as long as you are stubborn you cannot help but reach max level.  In the other, if you suck and keep getting killed, you'll not only never reach max level, you'll lose levels.

As for the accomplishment debate...to many of us, succeeding at something difficult, particularly that which others lack the ability to succeed at, is an accomplishment.  This is the same principle that leads people to call say, climbing a mountain that others have climbed before, an accomplishment.  It is difficult, and not everyone can succeed at it.  It is considered an accomplishment although it serves no useful purpose.  Now, whether a particular thing is difficult or not is a very good point to debate, but I think we can all agree that games are certainly capable of giving us difficult challenges that not everyone can succeed at, therefore there certainly is the possibility for accomplishment in games, just as there is in pretty much any field of anything that a person can do.

i agree with what you say,

I would much rather have games with a horizontal (ex ffxi) end game as apposed to wow/eq vertical method.

The idea that, it is the journey that counts and not the destination… meaning I would rather have a longer level cycle with more rewards then a game like wow that is on ez mode.

The idea is that I want to play a party centric game. Meaning that there is a synergy between the players. Do not misinterpret this as forced grouping (like most do).

This is where most mmos fails as they try to appease everyone… the genre has to move away from the big clan experience and allow smaller groups to enjoy the end game content on an equal playing field. Imo, this is where WAR has an advantage with their public quest system.

I quit wow during the MC raiding because it was flat out boring. Simply put, I don’t want to guild with people I do not like but this is not the case. At least in ffxi, we had a linkshell system so you could join multiple guilds based on the kind of activity I wanted to do.

For me, AoC looks like it has the depth and technology that I actually expect from a mmop and ffxi was the last game that delivered that.

*edit*
also having a more party centric game helps limit the cheating. lets be honest here, i wouldnt be shocked at all if 80% of the wow players on this board alone doesnt use glider.

[Morfiend]

For me, AoC looks like it has the depth and technology that I actually expect from a mmop and ffxi was the last game that delivered that.

Hey if you want to have a real talk on AoC PVP, thats great, but please dont destroy this thread also. You can expect anything you want, but look at what people are saying. AoC PVP weekend was pretty much a total bust. Their engine cant handle their claims ATM. Its fine and great they are saying all this stuff, but if it flat out doesnt work, then it doesnt work.

I really want AoC to be good, as they have some great ideas, but if they cant balance the classes to even semi close state, and also have their engine be able to support the actual gameplay, I dont see the pvp being good.

Its fine if you want to take their claims at face value, but a lot of people are calling it Hellgate 2.0.

[grunk]

For me, AoC looks like it has the depth and technology that I actually expect from a mmop and ffxi was the last game that delivered that.

Hey if you want to have a real talk on AoC PVP, thats great, but please dont destroy this thread also. You can expect anything you want, but look at what people are saying. AoC PVP weekend was pretty much a total bust. Their engine cant handle their claims ATM. Its fine and great they are saying all this stuff, but if it flat out doesnt work, then it doesnt work.

I really want AoC to be good, as they have some great ideas, but if they cant balance the classes to even semi close state, and also have their engine be able to support the actual gameplay, I dont see the pvp being good.

Its fine if you want to take their claims at face value, but a lot of people are calling it Hellgate 2.0.

Sorry your wrong. The vibe that came back from the pvp weknd was actually very good. Yeah im sure a few people with low end pc;s had issues... but the game looks very solid.

[IainC]

Well I'm glad that got cleared up.

[grunk]

also anyone that says this game is like hellgate or gasp, vanguard are simply trying to become one with the fail.

Morfiend your views are simply ... "retarded"

[Morfiend]

also anyone that says this game is like hellgate or gasp, vanguard are simply trying to become one with the fail.

Morfiend your views are simply ... "retarded"

*Sigh* I can see using logic on you is a wasted exercise, but I have to try.

How are my views, who has first hand experience with the game, vs you who only read the hype, retarded? I would go in to more detail on the state of the game but  so I can only talk about the PVP weekend.

As I said before I REALLY hope the game is good, cause I want to have a fun PVP game, but you who hasnt played it, and only read the hype insulting people who have is much more "retarded".

[Vinadil]

I did not play the weekend myself either, but guildies who did had the same experience of "pvP might have been fun if we could have not lagged through it."

And, the whole "well, yea, the LOW END MACHINE people will suck" excuse IS amazingly like... hmm Vanguard I think.  Perhaps AoC is choosing to limit its customer base, hoping that only the new-computer crowd will play their game.  But, if that is not the case then they have some work to do on the whole lag thing, at least for the PvP side.

[Koyasha]

It's not just low-end PC's either, as I don't think much of anyone would consider mine low-end.  It's not top of the line anymore, but a Core 2 Duo E6600 running at 2.8 Ghz with 6 GB of memory on Vista Ultimate 64-bit and a GEForce 8800 GTS isn't low-end.  And just to head off any suggestions that Vista might be a problem, remember that AoC has DX10 support which means it should be thoroughly tested and run just fine on Vista.  For me, however, I had constant crash issues, the PvP portion of the game was interspersed with such bursts of lag and slowdown that I didn't manage to play it very much at all, and the PvE section, while an interesting new take on combat, also suffered from difficulty of playing it.  Will it be more functional at release?  I am certainly not expecting much.

[Nija]

also anyone that says this game is like hellgate or gasp, vanguard are simply trying to become one with the fail.

Morfiend your views are simply ... "retarded"

Grunk I hope every single person like you ends up playing Conan and leaves the rest of the games for everyone else.

I suspect the kool-aid is good?

[grunk]

also anyone that says this game is like hellgate or gasp, vanguard are simply trying to become one with the fail.

Morfiend your views are simply ... "retarded"

*Sigh* I can see using logic on you is a wasted exercise, but I have to try.

How are my views, who has first hand experience with the game, vs you who only read the hype, retarded? I would go in to more detail on the state of the game but  so I can only talk about the PVP weekend.

As I said before I REALLY hope the game is good, cause I want to have a fun PVP game, but you who hasnt played it, and only read the hype insulting people who have is much more "retarded".

What was your rig setup for the pvp weeknd? also this was a stress test no?

[Lantyssa]

I thought the PvP weekend version didn't support DX10.  (I may be remembering it wrong.  If not, there is this to consider then.)

[Morfiend]

also anyone that says this game is like hellgate or gasp, vanguard are simply trying to become one with the fail.

Morfiend your views are simply ... "retarded"

*Sigh* I can see using logic on you is a wasted exercise, but I have to try.

How are my views, who has first hand experience with the game, vs you who only read the hype, retarded? I would go in to more detail on the state of the game but  so I can only talk about the PVP weekend.

As I said before I REALLY hope the game is good, cause I want to have a fun PVP game, but you who hasnt played it, and only read the hype insulting people who have is much more "retarded".

What was your rig setup for the pvp weeknd? also this was a stress test no?

E6600, 150gb raptor drive, 2gb RAM, 8800GTX, XP Pro s2. And unlike what you tried to say in the other thread, I DID build it myself. Also, no I am not playing the stress test. I am playing  as I said in the post you quoted, but ether didnt read, or didnt comprehend. But since I am playing the  I can only "talk" about the PVP weekend.

[grunk]

also anyone that says this game is like hellgate or gasp, vanguard are simply trying to become one with the fail.

Morfiend your views are simply ... "retarded"

*Sigh* I can see using logic on you is a wasted exercise, but I have to try.

How are my views, who has first hand experience with the game, vs you who only read the hype, retarded? I would go in to more detail on the state of the game but  so I can only talk about the PVP weekend.

As I said before I REALLY hope the game is good, cause I want to have a fun PVP game, but you who hasnt played it, and only read the hype insulting people who have is much more "retarded".

What was your rig setup for the pvp weeknd? also this was a stress test no?

E6600, 150gb raptor drive, 2gb RAM, 8800GTX, XP Pro s2. And unlike what you tried to say in the other thread, I DID build it myself. Also, no I am not playing the stress test. I am playing  as I said in the post you quoted, but ether didnt read, or didnt comprehend. But since I am playing the  I can only "talk" about the PVP weekend.

Yes i did read what you said, and yeah i understand. i am just having a hard time accepting that the game is broken.

I am not asking you to talk about ?. I am talking about the stress test that took place and thats it.

[lac]

hey're going extremely fast.  Like a minute or so for each batch

Wow, you were not kidding. The second batch was gone in under a minute. Do you have to be a paying subscriber to get in? I have some sort of free account there.

[Musashi]

Become one with the fail.