SWTOR

[Samprimary]

If i were able to go back in time and rewrite the prequels from scratch, I'd make one of the poignant points of the whole prequel that the Jedi, while being the 'good guys,' are tragically flawed and that the whole 'no attachments' thing is but one of the many ways that the organization has become indolent, and wrapped up in centuries of dogma and doctrine which have turned it into a worm-eaten institution. Where RedLetterMedia had noted that the jedi had ended up just sort of creepy and nonempathic, I'd play that up: the jedi had become emotionally mute and sterile. By the time the second movie is done, a battle in around the same timeframe of Geonosis in the movie trilogy would be noteworthy not because it alone severely depletes the jedi but because it reveals rather pointedly that the jedi have been in decline for a while now and turn out to be weak, and ripe for purging similar to what happened to the ottoman jannisaries.

 I guess the media would seize upon any cheap analogue towards the catholic church but whatever the prequels were filled with ham-fisted allegory to GWB's policies anyway.

this is my favorite game by the way, "how would you have made prequels that didn't suck"

[Typhon]

That's an interesting angle. 

I guess I'd twist a bit - portray this particular Jedi ideology (no strong attachments) as the 'safe' ideology.  It's internally self-consistent.  It provides for the safest transition for young Jedi to become old Jedi without being detoured to the dark side via jealously or lack of objectivity.

What it misses is that all the Jedi that follow this ideology end up with no external attachments and become increasingly unlikeable to non-Jedi, who view them as ambivalent to (put race name here) problems or concerns.  After a couple of decades they are simply unable to empathize with anyone but themselves.  The subtle difference is that the organization at this point isn't specifically corrupt, it just no longer has the mandate of the governed.  If they were clueless, they'd drift into being irrelevant.  Because they aren't clueless, the Jedi need to begin to be more dictatorial to shepherd the flock.

Overtime, the Sith start to look pretty good.  The horror stories begin to be perceived as Jedi propaganda.  They seem to understand the (race name here)'s condition.  They are willing to get down into the gutter.  They care!  Of course that's all bullshit, but after a couple generations of Jedi pursuing their own incomprehensible agendas and isolating themselves it seems inevitable that someone, possibly many someone's, will start to make deals with the Sith.

[Lantyssa]

This game needs to come out soon so we have something of substance to talk about.

[Sky]

Go back to talking about how many dicks this game will suck.

Like, in succession or simultaneously? One event or are we talking through a lifetime? I find your lack of specificity....disturbing.

That expounded upon, I will still be buying TOR at launch. I think I'll get more hours of enjoyment out of it than I did Civ V.

Also, nuking it will feed it, because it thrives on nucular energies (and toxic mold).

[Ratman_tf]

Well having read all this I don't think the game's going to lack subs no matter how terrible it is.

Strong launch that peaks at about a million subs, then slowly trickles down. Severs start consolidating at the launch+1 year mark, with possible free to play+games store incentives, if it doesn't launch with that payment plan. Just like every other high profile chucklefuck MMO out there.

[SnakeCharmer]

TOR is going to sell a million boxes the first week, nevermind the first month.  Bioware Austin fans + Star Wars fans + KOTOR fans?  That's no moon, that's the largest collection of neckbearded nerds ever seen.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, I think I said 75 pages ago that I think this thing will sell boxes, maybe on a scale bigger than anything since WoW.  Subscriptions, on the other hand?  Who knows.

[Paelos]

Yeah, I think I said 75 pages ago that I think this thing will sell boxes, maybe on a scale bigger than anything since WoW.  Subscriptions, on the other hand?  Who knows.

All signs point to it being fine in the short term. I think they will get lots of subs for 3 months. If they don't have content ready to roll out at that point, they will be horribly embarrassed by how quickly their players devour their storylines.

[Surlyboi]

Go back to talking about how many dicks this game will suck.

Like, in succession or simultaneously? One event or are we talking through a lifetime? I find your lack of specificity....disturbing.

Imagine a beowulf cluster of dicks. Perhaps an infinite array of dicks. Dicks all the way down.

[Lucas]

Yeah, I think I said 75 pages ago that I think this thing will sell boxes, maybe on a scale bigger than anything since WoW.  Subscriptions, on the other hand?  Who knows.

Same. I think we are talking 3-5 million boxes sold in the short term. Subscriptions...yeah, who knows.

[ghost]

If i were able to go back in time and rewrite the prequels from scratch, I'd make one of the poignant points of the whole prequel that the Jedi, while being the 'good guys,' are tragically flawed and that the whole 'no attachments' thing is but one of the many ways that the organization has become indolent, and wrapped up in centuries of dogma and doctrine which have turned it into a worm-eaten institution. Where RedLetterMedia had noted that the jedi had ended up just sort of creepy and nonempathic, I'd play that up: the jedi had become emotionally mute and sterile. By the time the second movie is done, a battle in around the same timeframe of Geonosis in the movie trilogy would be noteworthy not because it alone severely depletes the jedi but because it reveals rather pointedly that the jedi have been in decline for a while now and turn out to be weak, and ripe for purging similar to what happened to the ottoman jannisaries.

That was the way I generally took the overall setting of the Jedi.  It was tough to see it beyond Jar Jar Binks though. 

[LK]

Where RedLetterMedia had noted that the jedi had ended up just sort of creepy and nonempathic, I'd play that up: the jedi had become emotionally mute and sterile.

What it misses is that all the Jedi that follow this ideology end up with no external attachments and become increasingly unlikeable to non-Jedi, who view them as ambivalent to (put race name here) problems or concerns. 

This is the weakness of a Light Jedi -- their lack of emotion means that they may make decisions that seem heartless and unconcerned with other people and can put them on the defensive. They may, in fact, sacrifice a planet to guarantee the survival of the universe, under the right conditions.

[Murgos]

This game needs to come out soon so we have something of substance to talk about.

Hasn't stopped anyone yet.

[Modern Angel]

I think you guys missed my point about the subs entirely. I forget sometimes that people take Lucas' lore seriously enough to have philosophical discussions about it. If folks can do that with ravening fervor then they'll stay with what looks to be an absolutely uninspired trash chute forever.

[LK]

The discussions on the lore aren't so much "How does a light saber work?" but the philosophies and themes of the higher concepts of the work -- something you could do with any good story. But the game isn't going to touch on that except in the quests. If the mechanics suck, it's going to be a game design discussion, not a lore and literary monkey one, and people won't play.

If people want to pay a subscription fee for a glorified, themed chat room to discuss lore in a terrible, terrible game... that's their own stupid ass fault.

[Riggswolfe]

I think you guys missed my point about the subs entirely. I forget sometimes that people take Lucas' lore seriously enough to have philosophical discussions about it. If folks can do that with ravening fervor then they'll stay with what looks to be an absolutely uninspired trash chute forever.

In many ways, it appears that you guys are trashing this game for not reinventing the genre. This isn't the game for that. To me, it appears that what they are attempting to do is to refine the elements of a good diku MMO much like Blizzard did with WOW. Now, whether or not they will succeed I don't know. I think this has a pretty good chance of being the #2 MMO in the U.S. which means it needs to beat LOTRO which I think has something like 250k subs. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Still, there are a lot of unknowns. Will it be stable? Will it launch "complete"? Will people stick around after they finish the story? Will people enjoy alts? Will the endgame give people something worth staying for? How often can they put out new content?

[Modern Angel]

I'm trashing it because it looks BAD.

[ajax34i]

Will people enjoy alts?

Blizzard is currently training people to "enjoy alts," so...  it's a gaming industry conspiracy I say.

[LK]

You design 10 different ways to play a game, you best encourage your customers to explore the other 9 possibilities.

People who enjoy alts enjoy playing the game (such as it is). People who play one character enjoy experiencing the content or amassing their accomplishments into one character rather than one account. The latter is what I prioritize.

If I wanted to encourage people to play all the different classes, I'd remove character-based achievements and make them account-based. Hell, that's what XBox Live really is.

[Paelos]

I'm trashing it because it looks BAD.

And I'm guessing you're not in the beta or you wouldn't be issuing this opinion.

My main complaint with the game is that I don't think the developers accurately understand their playerbase, but I don't think the game looks bad.

[Modern Angel]

I really don't have an axe to grind on this game in particular. I don't care about Star Wars one way or the other; the prequels killed any joy I felt from the series basically forever. I keep one eye on videos and previews because I still follow MMO news. I think it looks bad. There's a fuckton of games we all glance at and go "LOL THAT LOOKS TERRIBLE!" without being in the beta and without anyone going, "Well you're not in the beta so what do you know?" This isn't special just because it has Jedi warriors running around.

[Paelos]

You're certainly entitled to think the game looks bad. I just don't think it's a valid critique on a game since it falls into the graphical ballpark. As stated in other threads, I think judging games by their graphics is a waste of time, and represents a small percentage of the overall playerbase.

MMOG's don't live and die on graphics. They live and die on social ties, endgame, and achiever hooks.

[Fordel]

Well, they totally die on graphics if they are so bleeding edge only 5% of the potential player base can actually run the game!


I don't think that is relevant to SWTOR though.

[UnSub]

One large issue with being story-focused is that according to BioWare's own stats, only 50% of players who started ME2 actually finished the game (although I believe that is actually a good completion rate for a title). Depending how much progression is attached to listening to NPCs talking, story may actually get in the way of levelling up.

[LK]

Stories need to keep players engaged. Mass Effect 2 had a lot of downtime and some boring bits. Also: very long if you let it. The story was only pushed forward at certain points.

[Lucas]

New Class Update, the Trooper (AC: Vanguard and Commando):

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/trooper

Trooper Companion, Tanno Vik:
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/biographies/tanno-vik

Trooper Starship, BT-7 Thunderclap:
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/starships/bt-7-thunderclap

[Khaldun]

If they haven't solved the problem of content generation, consider this not only dick-sucking but completely DOA as a subscription-driven MMO. That all the more since they've made the entire point of it about experiencing content.

[Oban]

New Class Update, the Trooper (AC: Vanguard and Commando):

Awesome, I can't wait for Tabula Rasa to go live.

[SnakeCharmer]

kekekekeke

[Lucas]

New Class Update, the Trooper (AC: Vanguard and Commando):

Awesome, I can't wait for Tabula Rasa to go live.

[Fordel]

Ahh poop, the trooper ship is the silly asymmetrical one. 


Though I think it should actually dock with the Republic Cruisers in a way that makes the combination of a few of them symmetrical.

[Crumbs]

I think we need to refocus on how awesome and sub-retaining the voice acting is going to be.   

[UnSub]

I think we need to refocus on how awesome and sub-retaining the voice acting is going to be.   

My DCUO-related voice experiences have been:

1) Every patch is 1GB+;

2) It was awesome being able to completely ignore the mission text and have Batman tell me what was going on while I ran to the next objective, even through it didn't matter what Batman said at all and I could ignore that too;

3) Voiced missions don't work well when Wonder Woman is speaking, as is a background NPC, as is a VOIP player. It's very easy to overlap the voices and hear nothing as a result; and

4) It is a big step back to go to a title that doesn't have fully voiced characters, such as RIFT.

[Sheepherder]

That ship is fucking pants on head stupid.  Like some asshat passed off his son's artwork stolen off the fridge at home as his own concept art, and instead of backhanding him for submitting this shit they put it into production.

[LK]

Mission objectives on the way to a mission in VO sounds pretty damn good actually. "Go here while I explain over comm."

I mean, it'd be better than standing there and listening. Something to engage the eyes while your ears are busy.