f13.net

Might as well start a new thread with a fucking MONSTER deal apparently going down right now:

Toronto gets: Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes, Mark Buehrle, John Buck, and Emilio Bonifacio from the Marlins.

No word on what is going back to Miami yet.

Calling it now: Yankees finish no better than 3rd and miss the playoffs.

EDIT:

Happy Blue Jays players starting to hit Twitter...


Toronto just doubled their payroll.

EDIT 2:


EDIT 3:

Meanwhile in Miami...

I may be uninformed, but is this just the Marlins dumping payroll or something? I can't think of anything they could possibly be getting for the quality of players they're giving away. They sucked ass last year, but Reyes and Buehrle were still good individually.

Curse of the spinfish!

Their owner deserves everything bad that happens to that franchise.

Looks like I might end up at a Jays game or two this summer. It's been a while.


I have no idea who the prospects are in the trade coming from the Blue Jays.

Given how hard they try to get us to have faith in a turnaround for the Jays every season, I'd say it doesn't bode well for the Miami side of the deal.

This. 100x this.

I'm not a huge follower of baseball, but this was a monster deal for the Jays. I don't think they're done yet, either.

I keep hearing it is the Mariners and Orioles who are the expected frontrunners for Josh Hamilton. What will likely happen is the Orioles will push the price up to a franchise crippling level, then bail out and let the Mariners 'win'. Hamilton will fall off a cliff and utterly fuck the Mariners. Which will mean that the Orioles finish off the job they started with the Bedard trade. Bitter? No, not me...

He has won two World Series acting like a complete jackass. 

They are doing their usual "WE DIDN'T WIN WHAAAAAA DUMP PAYROLL GET YOUNGER RAAARRRGGGBLBLE" bullshit. The Jays get a shitload, give up a bunch of prospects and some meh guys. The Marlins really don't get shit back in return other than dropping a boatload of payroll and rebuilding their farm system.

An All-Star leadoff hitter, a former Cy Young winner (didn't Buerlhe win one?) and another #2/#3/#4 level starter plus other stuff. That's a good haul.

EDIT: And if Hamilton goes to the Mariners... LOLLERSKATES. I know they are pulling in the fences out there but I see Adrian Beltre 2.0 with more drunken binges.

Jays already had a solid hitting lineup - they just had no pitching. I think their "Ace" Romero lost 8 of his last 9 starts or some such thing. This, this could make them quite scary. I may actually pay attention for the first time in nearly twenty years.

Romero had a lot of injury problems this year - elbow, knees. His peripherals were terrible and it's likely the health issues were really affecting his delivery (hence huge spike in walk rate). His history other than that is good so I would expect if he can be healthy going forward he'll be fine.

Allow me to introduce you to the latest excuse why the Mariners won't be players in the free agent market (http://seattletimes.com/html/technologybrierdudleysblog/2019685106_post_59.html). Since upgrades to the park are part of the contract/lease with the city after the taxpayers built them a palace, one would assume this is factored into the operating budget and won't affect the payroll. In reality, the cheap fucks that run the team will be reticent to spend any money when their gate is in the toilet.

Their TV contract runs out in a year or two, and they are primed to launch likely launch their own RSN, which should absolutely print money. My fervent hope is that the borrow against the future now and crank up the payroll to give us something worth watching once the new network hits (and before Felix fucks off to greener pastures).

That's a really big epeen measuring device.

I still laugh at every early broadcast of that horrible looking park. The MLB announcers had to tow the company line about what a great idea it was to build a shiny lime-green eyesore for people who weren't showing up.

Are you talking about Safeco Field? It is widely regarded as one of the better ballparks in the league. Not really an eyesore at all.

Also- TOE the line. Otherwise they would be dragging it somewhere.

I think toe the line is antiquated despite being correct.

I like the idea of towing something together. It's wrong but mentally i get it.

EDIT - I got the Marlins and the Mariners mixed up. I meant that stupid field in Miami. We switched topics and I didn't follow.

Melky to the Blue Jays as well - 2 years at $8 million each. Better than I thought he'd get, Toronto is being very aggressive. Probably good value there in any case.

I was hoping the Rays would scoop him up for about half of that.

Most TB fans are somberly waiting for Upton and Shields to leave.  They offered Upton the hometown discount, but analysts predict that's just so the Rays can snag another draft pick.  We love us our farm system over here.

There's no way he was going to go for less than ~8, but potentially it could have been a one year deal.

Not that I held out much hope with Boras in the picture, but the Braves chances of holding onto Bourn in the free agent market are dwindling fast.

Every now and then TB gets a contract discount on folks who're lookin' to make a home someplace.  Lots of mid-to-late-career sports stars end up making a home here.

Apparently the Braves are now looking at BJ Upton very seriously.

They want to underpay another young player for a few years before losing him to free agency?  :why_so_serious:

Seems to be our plan while liberty media owns the team. Also we're hamstrung by Turner cutting a sweetheart TV deal that pays the Braves diddly dick until 2030. Nevermind the fact that we have one of the largest TV markets in the US along with the Yankees and Cubs.

I think you are thinking of Justin Upton? B.J. already is a free agent.

And speaking of BJ Upton, to the Braves for 5 years, $75 million.

I'd put this as one of those 25% chance of awesome, 40% chance of appropriate value, 35% chance of Oh Fuck Aaron Rowand deals. It's risky, but the potential upside is really good. I think I'm glad it isn't us trying it though.

Defensively he's outstanding. Offensively he has more power than Bourn, but he also has a major problem with strikeouts I'd like to see addressed.

That's just part of his game.  Having watched him very closely for years, he hits .225 when he's free swinging and .260 when he's not.  His defensive ability is incredible though.  As a Braves fan you'll have flashbacks of great center fielders such as Grissom, Nixon, and Jones (before he got fat).

I also think that when you put competent hitters around him some of the RBI pressure will be lowered, raising his average further.

I'm sad to see him go because he's such a great talent, but I'm happy he went to the NL and happier still that it was ATL.

Defensively he's... inconsistent. He makes some great plays, but runs the wrong way on others. I'd say the jury is out, but you're not getting another Andruw Jones here.

As far as hitting goes, plate discipline and bat control aren't usually skills that suddenly develop at age 28 (and actually his walk rate is pretty good already). Still even if he only manages to keep up his usual .750 OPS or whatever that's valuable at CF.

I'd say I've watched maybe 400 games over the past four seasons of Rays baseball.  No.

Maybe a touch when he broke into the bigs as a transitioning SS, but no.  Defense is one of his top assets.

Too bad all the power hitters around him in the lineup also hit for .260 or less. I smell another Dan Uggla.  :why_so_serious:

There's no way it can be any worse than TB.  .240 on our club makes you a megastar.

 :awesome_for_real:

First - he's unarguably a worse defender than Bourn, who is the best defensive CF in the game by a pretty large margin IMO. Fielding Bible gave their award to Trout but I think Bourn was better. Point being, Atlanta fans are going to feel like they're seeing a dropoff when they watch him and they probably will be right.

Second - the naked eye is not always the best judge of defense. We're usually looking at the batter for long enough that we miss what kind of jump an OF gets on a ball, so we only see the 'catch' part and think a guy who makes great catches - and Upton *does* do this impressively - is a great defender, even if we're missing the fact that there are balls that other guys get to that he's missing. Advanced metrics for fielding are not yet as reliable as those for hitting, but they're a lot better than they used to be and they tend to have Upton as an average-to-pretty-good fielder overall. (Assuming I didn't fuck up my filter at FanGraphs he's actually slightly below average on both UZR and defensive runs saved in 2012.)

We don't need better defense. We need to stop having three of the NL leaders in strikeouts if they aren't hitting bombs

You just did. Now you'll have FOUR.

That is Ken Griffey Jr to a tee. I think he got a reputation as a great defender for making spectacular catches, while the truly great defenders make it look easy because they are always in the right place ahead of the ball.

I watched a grand total of zero ATL games last year, so okay.  :)



I've been a fan, player, coach, umpire in some fashion for 22 years now, and barring a shoulder injury would've played collegiate ball.  What you're referring to is what I call baseball speed, and it's the one or two steps an outfielder gains just by properly reading the position of the pitch and the swing the batter puts on the ball.  I'm certainly not a pro scout though, but it does help me play softball and be competitive even though I'm 30lbs. overweight now (God what I'd kill to be 215 again.).   :grin:  

I'm not basing this on a SportsCenter highlight reel or who I see on BT's web gems.   I disagree that Upton makes spectacular plays, instead, I think he makes less of those because he's so damn fast and tracks down balls without having to leave his feet.  Also, he tends to play shallower than less talented CFs (Crawford did this too in left), having watched a few games in the bullpen sections.

I suppose one defensive knock on him would be his arm strength, which is average to below average.

I can only comment on what I watched, and I'm by no means a baseball statistician.  And what I saw (both on TV andand attending 13-ish games?), was a guy that had a good chance to make tough plays unless a ball was scorched into a gap.  But, maybe that doesn't translate well into advanced baseball metrics.  

Or, maybe he's just not that good and I'm a homer.

But, I'll go with five years at seventy-five million substantiating my point.

Edit:  Goddammit Droid 4, stop putting smilies in weird places.

It absolutely is, but that's not B.J. Upton.  I think part of Upton's negative perceptions of laziness in 2010 were partly because he makes CF look easy. 

Knowing Frank Wren's "Big Money" moves, this will probably be a total clusterfuck. He's yet to make a big free agent signing over $10M a year that wasn't a letdown, if not a total fuckup.

I will say I don't like what this does to Angel Pagan's years/dollar numbers. It pushes it more towards a 4 year deal being likely for him and that's one more than I'd feel comfortable giving him.

Another CF domino falls, as the Twins trade Denard Span to the Nationals for Alex Meyer, a 6'9" college pitching prospect with some nice peripherals who made it up to high A in his first season. Really nice pickup, Span is a bargain for what he gives you.

And that was the guy I was hoping for our LF spot, so... fuck.

I hate the David Wright deal for the Mets. Too many years. I'd rather pay him 5/$100 than 8/$138, even though it's a higher yearly rate.

Enjoyed this, from a few days ago:

http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2012/11/21/flip-flop-fly-ball-losing-my-religion/

He's in for a long season.  :oh_i_see:

That poor bastard. Someone good-hearted enough to take a public piss on Murdoch and his ilk doesn't deserve to suffer life as a Mariners fan.

I mean shit, he almost picked the Cubs.

Kind of sad he randomly discarded the A's in that article without giving any reason what so ever, unlike every other team.

At least he'd have had the sympathy of baseball fans everywhere. You do not know how many people gave me the thumbs up and talked to me out of the blue when I used to wear my Cubs jacket. Mariners? Most people try to ignore their existence. Teleku's right. At least if he'd picked the A's he'd have a chance in hell of seeing postseason baseball next year.

Hell, if the Giants sign Victorino I may be an A's fan until his contract expires.   :oh_i_see:

Hop aboard the Mariner bandwagon! We have really good bloggers (http://www.ussmariner.com/), plus the team will be out of contention by mid-May so you get your summers and falls to yourself.

Angel Pagan deal is one year longer than I'd like, but the $/year isn't as bad as I was afraid it would be and MOST IMPORTANTLY it minimizes the chances of a Victorino signing.

In other news, A-Rod will miss half the season due to hip surgery.

The Yankees are running a very expensive retirement home.

I'm really sad it looks like we won't be resigning Brian Wilson.  :(

Looks like the Mariners are talking to Michael Bourn.

I think the owners should all collude to keep him sidelined until he shaves that goddamned wolverine off of his face.

Whole bunch of interesting stuff over the weekend and today.

- Philadelphia goes all in on the race for the oldest team by inexplicably trading for the least valuable regular player in all of MLB last year (Michael Young). Rangers get an absolute gift with this deal.

- White Sox sign a one-legged player (Jeff Keppinger) to a 3 year deal based on basically one good outlier season that happened at an advanced age. The yearly money is chump change, but still.

- Royals trade prospects for a couple decent players in a win-now deal? World, upside down. And not just any prospects, but Wil Myers, who is inarguably among the best remaining minor league prospects in all of baseball, and they threw in a very solid pitcher as well. I think this is an outright *heist* by Tampa Bay, and they continue to prove that they have perhaps the best front office in all of baseball.

- Greinke to Dodgers. They are going to look like Philly in 3 years or less - crippling, expensive, inescapable contracts to players who have age related decline all at the same time. It helps for next year though.

- Youk is about 90% likely to end up a Yankee. This makes me laugh.

I don't know if Kep is worth three years, but he played very, very well in TB.  Maddon has a way with fragile players though.

Also, lols Royals.  You just got fleeced.  TB had seven viable starters (Price, Shields, Moore, Hellickson, Archer, Davis, and Niemann), so we really didn't lose much.  Shields is still a stud though.  A changeup that just doesn't quit. 

Shields is good but he's not as good as Tropicana Field and the Rays defense made him look. KC has a pretty bad defense, is a worse park to pitch in, and I can easily see Shields putting an ERA up that's closer to 4 than to 3 this year. His road ERA is 4.29 over the last 3 years, a full point higher than at home.

Royals = dumb. It's really a shame because they'd been doing such a good job with their minor league buildup, and Myers would be taking the job of one of the worst regulars in baseball if he stayed (Francoeur).

====

So, Youk to the Yankees is apparently for sure now. Odds that he gets booed his first time up?

I expect Youk to get booed A LOT.

I see why the Indians and the Reds made their parts of the 3 way trade (although Reds now don't have a CF...) but I think Arizona made a pretty poor choice there. They seem to be really overrating Gregorius.

Hamilton to the Angels, 5/125. Glad it wasn't the Ms, but I am sure his inevitable decline won't happen for several years now just to fuck with the Ms.

I kind of feel like his inevitable decline has already started. He posted a lower WAR last year than in 2011 despite playing 27 more games. It should help that he isn't going to be in center anymore, though. (Unless the Angels are dumber than I think.)

He'll be fine for the first two years of that contract.

Looks like R.A. Dickey is being traded to Toronto.  The rumoured deal breaks down as follows: going to the Jays is  Dickey, catcher Josh Thole (who caught Dickey last year) and a non-elite prospect, going to the Mets is catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud, pitching prospect Noah Syndergaard, catcher John Buck and a non-elite prospect.  

If this goes through, Toronto will have a starting staff of Dickey, Mark Buehrle, Josh Johnson, Brandon Morrow and Rickey Romero.  If Romero can sort himself out and the rest can pitch like they have in the past, the Jays could have the best starting pitching in baseball.  As a Jays fan, this is the first time in more than 15 years I've been really excited for the next season to start.

Not much chance of that, but they will have a very good staff, with a shot at being top 5. Jays are set up to do well this year, with the Yankees in a down season, the inevitable crash back to earth for the Orioles, and big question marks in Boston. Tampa Bay is the team to watch out for. And of course, if the Jays underperform this could end very, very badly for everyone concerned, but I think they'll make the playoffs.

I'm of two minds about this trade.

My gut reaction is that Anthopoulous decided he was a real wheeler and dealer after the Marlins trade. He was pretty much universally lauded because it looks really lopsided. When in reality, it's pretty clear that Florida ownership had already decided to ditch all of those contracts. It's not like those guys were performing, either. Who says they're going to perform in Toronto? Everyone just kind of assumes they will.

The Mets just got two elite prospects for an old guy with one year left on his deal that wouldn't re-sign. That could very easily come back to bite the Jays in the ass for many years to come. I think it's a damn good deal for the Mets, to be honest. They sold a guy that's 38 at his highest possible value.

On the other hand..

Things could go right and the Jays could be really good this year, or for a few years to come. As someone in Toronto, I'm pretty sick and tired of waiting for tomorrow with the Blue Jays. It's been 20 years since we've had a good team.

That really is the question with the O's and their pitching.  Do we get beginning of the year or end of the year Strop?  Does Johnson put up more normal closer numbers, or another career type year?  Same with Miguel Salazar and the rest of the hey, watch us cobble together a starting rotation from guys on the street.

And the O's still haven't done a thing in the offseason to get offensively better (and are slightly worse defensively with the loss of Reynolds from first).  They won a historic number of one run games last year and you can't count on that to occur again. 

So, yah, a lot of questions for what is looking to be a blood bath of a division next year. 

It's one of those trades that really looks like a win/win for both teams. It's a win-now deal for the Blue Jays and a win-later deal for the Mets, and it fits where both of them are on the compete-rebuild cycle pretty well. While I'm as big a proponent as anyone of focusing your resources on young players and prospects, there is a point where you can't keep just developing and trading players and have to make the call to try to take your shot at a championship, and I give Arthropod a lot of credit for recognizing when the window of opportunity has finally cracked open in the AL East.

It could all backfire of course, and then he gets fired, but that's life in the GM seat, unless you're Brian Sabean, in which case they just keep giving you new contracts until you win via dumb luck.  :why_so_serious:

Kendrys Morales to Mariners for Jason Vargas. I like it- Morales fills a need, and Vargas would have been hurt by the fences moving in (he is a serious fly ball pitcher, if memory serves). Also saves the Ms about 3M this year, which they need to hand to Bourn or Swisher posthaste.

Wow, surprising to see a deal like that in-division. Sucks to be Peter Bourjos, too, he could have started somewhere else since he's so good defensively it makes up for his crappy bat, but I can't see them trading him now so he's stuck as a 4th outfielder.

I think Trumbo will DH and Bourjos will play in the field, no?

It probably doesn't hurt that Hockey is a no show this year, in regards to the Jays and all their buying players. Jays haven't been relevant in the city for a long long time.

That would probably be the smart move, but I suspect Vernon Wells is going to get a lot of those DH at-bats because insanity.

I just can't believe it was someone other than the Mariners who gave Wells his contract. Holy shit has he fallen off a cliff, Chone Figgins style.

Oh Andruw, Andruw, Andruw........ (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8780632/andruw-jones-accused-dragging-wife-staircase-early-christmas-morning)


 :ye_gods:

First Chipper gets divorced again, and now this.

Smoltzy better not do anything stupid.

Looks like the HOF voters got some cajones (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8828339/baseball-hall-fame-fails-add-new-member-2013).  Good on them. 

They're a pack of fucking morons, more like.

Well, there's that too, but this year they got it right.  I imagine next year you'll see Glavine and Maddux get in on first ballot. 

They didn't get shit right. Even setting aside the steroid nonsense, there are several players on this year's ballot, who were never, ever linked to performance enhancing drugs who should have been elected. The only thing they did right this year was not elect Jack Morris, because he wasn't good enough.

Who should they have elected?  

Bagwell is the only one that makes sense to me, but maybe I'm not seeing something.  And I'm not even sure he belongs really.

Tim Raines for one. He should have been in years ago. Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza - all first-ballot worthy, Bagwell should have been elected last year. Edgar Martinez.

Agreed on all, but especially Edgar. The man could just fucking RAKE. Not his fault the Mariners were too retarded to play him regularly until he was fucking 27 :facepalm:

Biggio. That's a funny one.

No. He played a long time, but he was a shitty fielder in the last 10 years of his career, and he hit .280 lifetime as a second baseman.

I don't think any of those guys deserve it, personally.  I like the fact that it's difficult to get inducted and with the longer seasons and new, ahem, equipment, it's easier to compile better stats.

As a tangent, think about the days when Don Mattingly was a sure fire HOFer.  From 1984 to about 1989 he was a complete badass.  

He's one of the greatest 2nd basemen ever, full stop. Sure, he played a long time so his totals are high, but he's not some Omar Vizquel compiler type. He also had a long, extremely valuable peak. 4+ WAR in every year from age 25 to 35 minus one where he got hurt and only played 100 games. You put that together with the long career, the fact that his numbers are severely depressed from playing in the Astrodome for ever, and he should be an absolute lock.

Mattingly was never a 'sure' HOFer.

Sure he was, when he was fresh off an MVP and batting .325-340 every year.  To say otherwise is not remembering the media coverage at the time. 

That kind of thing is always "if he manages to keep it up" qualified by anyone with any sense. In any case I'm not sure I understand the relevance of a guy looking like he might make it mid-career to evaluating someone where we have their whole career right there on the page in front of us anyway.

Obviously not. He'd be in right now. He'll probably get in at some point, but I disagree he's one of the best of all time. He did have a great peak in the 90s but he played for so many years after that as a stat compiler. Hornsby, Robinson, Sanberg, Carew, Collins, Alomar, etc come to mind as the greats. I hate Joe Morgan but he's in there.

The only ones on that list I'd put ahead of Biggio are Hornsby, Morgan, and maybe Alomar. I think in general people are really substantially underestimating the effect that the Astrodome had on his (and Bagwell's) numbers.

I'm DQing Rod Carew because he played over half his games at first base.

I'd almost put Kent ahead of Biggio.

Almost.

Kent should probably get in as well, but he wasn't in Biggio's class defensively even at his best. Assuming the writers straighten out their derp about this era in general, he will be one of those guys who takes forever to get in probably. If they don't, he gets caught up in the wailing about how everyone was cheating (in the one kind of cheating that we apparently care about, never mind greenies and spitballs) and gets left out.

Yeah the glove on Kent was the reason for the almost.

Biggio certainly deserves it. No one seems to remember he came up as a catcher and switched to 2nd base and played better there than as a catcher. Or that he played in the shittastic Astrodome on fucking turf as hard as nails for years, like Ingmar said. He also played on a lot of shitty teams.

Jeff Kent had a few explosive years and was a late bloomer. I don't think he deserves it, but especially not before Biggio.

Just because someone switches positions doesn't automatically make them that much better than someone else. 

The reason the 4 years of playing catcher are relevant is because production from catcher is relatively more valuable than production from just about any other position. It makes his case stronger because it means he was a more valuable/useful player.

Nah.  If Dale Murphy can't make it, Biggio can't.   :oh_i_see:

Poor Dale. He carried those Braves teams.

Two time MVP, no less.

What a roster for the 1983 Braves- 

Bruce Benedict
Chris Chambliss
Glenn Hubbard
Rafael Ramirez
Bob Horner
Brett Butler
Claudell Washington

The pitching left a little to be desired..... :ye_gods:

Murphy was very good, borderline HOF case, not in Biggio's class at all.

How many MVP's does Biggio have?    :grin:

Biggio has problems with the turf, or something.

Which apparently wasn't bad enough to keep him from playing his entire career with the Stros, or making $9M a year when he was washed up. Or taking a paltry deal to play until he was in his 40s.

Biggio, Bagwell, Piazza and Raines are all worthy of being inducted, imo.  I don't understand Biggio not getting in, Bagwell and Piazza were probably left out due suspicions of steroid use and Raines because while he was a great base stealer, his other offensive numbers weren't high enough.  And I have no idea how Jack Morris got so many votes.  Edgar Martinez was primarily a DH and thats what hurts him here.  Also:

Others receiving votes: Bernie Williams, 19; Kenny Lofton, 18; Sandy Alomar Jr., 16; Julio Franco, 6; David Wells, 5; Steve Finley, 4; Shawn Green, 2; Aaron Sele, 1. :ye_gods:

Edit: I have to say I admire the Baseball Hall of Fame more than other sports halls of fame BECAUSE its so hard to get it.  Just being above average isn't good enough.  I'm looking at you, Hockey Hall of Fame.  Bernie Federko?  Bernie Federko?  Really? :facepalm:

A better question might be how many does Murphy deserve, which by my reading is 1. Schmidt or Carter would have been better MVP picks in '82. Biggio was also just as good as Larry Walker in '97, but Walker had his Coors Field .720 slugging year that year and the raw numbers turned everyone's head.

EDIT: Haha, Aaron Sele, that is awesome.

I love me some Kenny Lofton (go UofA), but no.  Gawd no.

edit: Woah, .299 career average.  I didn't know that.   His career stats really aren't that bad. 

Lofton is really underrated, borderline case. I'd be comfortable with a Hall of Fame where Lofton is the worst player in it. (And of course he wouldn't be, thanks to the Veteran's Committee...)

I think I just pulled off my first successful intentional troll.   :awesome_for_real:  


Lofton absolutely does not belong in the HOF. 

His defensive value - which was high - doesn't really show up in the stat line. A lot of players, center fielders in particular, in that mold are underrated and Lofton is one of the best of those guys - high on-base, great defense, good baserunner, but doesn't have flashy power numbers etc. He's just a touch behind the *average* center fielder in the HoF for career value, which puts him squarely in the 'should be considered' zone. I think he's got a good shot at a Vet's committee induction eventually.

I think the chances of that are very, very low. 

Defensive ability seems to be the last thing considered in these things.  Another great center fielder playing at the same time as Lofton was Devon White.  White's offensive numbers were average at best but I've never seen another center fielder play his position as smoothly as White.  Lofton was probably just as good in the field as White was but his offensive stats were far and away superior.  I didn't realize Lofton was so productive for so long and I don't think I'd have a problem with him being in the HoF.  But I agree, he's borderline and would be a good cut off point for future voting for center fielders.

Honestly I think part of Lofton's problem is his career stats look all choppy when you look at them because he was traded mid-season several times later in his career. It makes it look like he was hanging around forever having bad seasons, when really he was hanging around almost-forever having decent-to-good ones.

Andruw Jones, Kirby Puckett, Jim Edmunds, Otis Nixon, Carlos Beltran, Lenny Dykstra, Doug Glanville, Willie Wilson, Darren Lewis, Amos Otis, Kenny Lofton, and Gary Maddox come to mind.  

Damn, forgot Eddie Milner.

Andruw Jones is a good example of guy who went from seemingly a lock for the HOF to borderline at best. It's going to be very hard for a player who lost his full time job at the age of 31 to get in, no matter how good he was before that. If he'd retired or something he could use the Koufax argument - at his peak he was pretty dominant -  and those later part-time years are mostly better than they look at first glance, but yeah. Going to Japan at age 34 makes his chances almost zero, and the whole beating up his wife thing isn't going to do him any favors as that will be one of the last things people remember about him. Mind you, I don't actually believe the writers give a shit about that sort of thing, the character clause is for STEROIDS ONLY as far as they're concerned.

Edmonds isn't eligible yet but I believe he will make the HOF, at his peak he was a fantastic hitter on top of the regular CF skillset. Beltran has a good case building, for the same reason. Puckett is in already, of course (speaking of guys with at least as much of a character clause issue as a lot of guys who are getting painted as steroid users), nobody else there really is close but most of them were underrated during their careers.

I have a real issue with those kind of guys-  the ones that "hang around forever having decent-to-good ones".  I believe that to be in the HOF you really should have at least one truly transcendental year (like Larry Walker and his MVP year or Bagwell and his MVP year).  To me being consistently pretty good isn't a great formula for picking the best to ever play the sport.  Sure, you have to be consistent over a career.  I think the consistency is a requirement, but I also think "best in the game" type seasons should be too.  Example-  Raffy Palmeiro.  He hit in the 30s and 40s for home runs almost every year of his career and had a .288 average with low deviation.  I don't think he belongs just because he put up big numbers for his career.

Lofton had that year in '94. When you add his defense in I believe he should have won the MVP over Frank Thomas. Granted, it was a strike-shortened year.

I'll give that a maybe. 

As it turns out there was just an article about the HOF shorting center fielders: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/31978/the-underappreciated-bernie-williams

I would actually be much more in favor of Bernie Williams over Lofton, for several reasons:  1.  He was with one team his entire career, unlike Lofton who was with 11 or 12.  And you'll probably say that "yeah, but his most productive years were with the Indians in that 7 year stretch in the beginning".  Yes, but that's the point-  if he didn't have the extra years of shit padded on  we certainly wouldn't be having a discussion about him.  Jumping around also means that no team though he was valuable enough to keep, which makes me think that he isn't valuable enough for the HOF.  2.  Williams was a winner.  I appreciate winning and I think there are things that go into winning that don't show up on the stat sheet.  Yes, he played for the Yankees, but it's still tough to win the WS as we've seen wit the recent results from the "throw the bank at it" payrolls.  He was also very good in the playoffs (something that is a legitimate knock against Biggio and Bagwell). 

But we won't have to deal with either Williams or Lofton any more because they both got less than 5% of the vote. 

They are both good defensive players with very different approaches at the plate.  Lofton had value for being a dangerous baserunner with a decent OBP.  Williams had the advantage of being able to hit later in the order due to his power (0.50 better Slugging and a lot more HR).  Both had similar BB/SO ratios.  Looking over their career stats, they are surprisingly similar otherwise.  I'd say that is pretty impressive for Lofton as much as he was bounced around in the league he was able to maintain a pretty high standard.  If Lofton were a career 0.300 hitter (instead of 0.299), I think he may have been a lock for the 2nd ballot.   

Overall, I think the reason that Lofton ranks consistently higher in his rating against Williams would be because leadoff hitters in skill positions hold a lot of value and are harder to find.  

If Lofton had come up as a Yankee you can be sure he would have spent his whole career or most of it with one team as well. Bouncing around in all those midseason trades is really out of his control; it happened because he was a valuable commodity on bad teams.

I'm not sure why all the Jack Morris hate. I'm a Detroit homer, and watched him as a young lad...but here are some good points for him:


whole detroit free press story here: http://www.freep.com/article/20130110/SPORTS02/301100188/Ex-Tiger-Jack-Morris-deserved-Hall-of-Fame-nod-due-to-long-run-as-ace-postseason?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CDetroit%20Tigers


"Petry pitched with Morris for nine years in Detroit. He saw things -- Hall of Fame things -- that weren't easy to measure.

"He won big games," Petry said. "(And) if he won, 6-5, oh well. He was out there long enough to do it."

A point, said Dan Dickerson, that should be considered when deciding how to vote.

"He pitched eight innings or more almost half of the starts of his career," said Dickerson, a Tigers radio play-by-play announcer. "He was the ace. And I think the postseason does count."

Morris' supporters point to his postseason performance as reason No. 1 -- well, that and the fact that he won more games than any other pitcher in the '80s.

"I think the postseason does count," said Dickerson, who acknowledged that Morris' candidacy is somewhat unconventional because his career ERA (3.90) is higher than any current Hall of Fame pitcher.

Petry argues said that Morris would simply replace the pitcher who holds that designation now. In other words, so what?"




and another opinion that's on the money IMO

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/01/09/jack-morris-should-be-in-hall-of-fame/1821091/

For years, there have been people who argued that Morris did not belong in the Hall of Fame. They said he gave up too many runs. During his 18-year career, Morris gave up nearly four runs per nine innings.

But that misses the point.

Morris didn't care whether he won, 6-0 or 6-3. He would go to the mound and take the ball and snarl and challenge hitters and try to get another complete game. If he gave up a home run in a blowout, no big deal.

Morris pitched for 18 years and won 254 games. That's what Morris was about. Winning games. He won four World Series rings, including in 1984. He was the winningest pitcher of the 1980s and a five-time All-Star.

And best of all?

He was clean.

Now, do you want to know the cruel twist of fate?

Maybe Morris didn't get in this year because there was so much focus on the first-time guys on the ballot. The cheaters."

If he was that good the Yankees would have traded for him or signed him as a free agent.   :grin:


Also, Jack Morris was a badass.  That doesn't mean I believe he belongs in the HOF though.  I don't think he does.

It isn't hate, but the case for Morris simply isn't there statistically. He was a very good pitcher, but there are plenty of better pitchers left out (EDIT: Maybe not plenty, but they certainly exist. He's not even the best snubbed Tigers pitcher, that's Mickey Lolich. Tommy John and Luis Tiant also come to mind, and that's not including the guys on this ballot who didn't get in - Clemens, Schilling.) His one and only remarkable talent was having a pretty indestructible arm. It's telling how everyone who says he should get in in those articles essentially pins their argument on 'well he tried really hard' rather than something actually supportable.

The 'won most games in the 80s' argument is among the dumbest, honestly; not only because pitching wins are overrated as a start but because there's a bunch of artificial value being attached to the arbitrary start and end dates because they happen to line up with where the 10s digit in the years change.

I also see no particular reason to believe he was clean. Remember, everyone is guilty now, regardless of evidence.  :why_so_serious:

I don't think he gets in now, because a bunch of pitchers who utterly blow him away are about to show up on the ballot next year: Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, and Mike Mussina, and next year is his last year of eligibility. Even if he had 2 more years, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez show up the next year I believe.

And being clutch. But, I guess you guys have sorta swayed me.

Everybody loves a loser.   :why_so_serious:

As a purist, I think pitchers with less than 200 IP a season did too little work to be statistically significant for HOF consideration.    

Yes, I hate the DH too.

I dislike WAR in a conversation about the hall of fame.

Other than that, I'm glad nobody got in this year. I hope this trend continues for players with steroid inflated stats.

I kind of go back and forth on that; I think there should be room for truly dominant relief pitchers, but I don't think the voters are going to focus on that so much as questionably valuable stats like saves.

And of course if we really actually give a crap about drug use we should be very suspicious about high innings totals on pitchers from the 60s-80s, as there's a very interesting correlation between pitcher work totals and the years in which amphetamines were being used heavily by players to combat fatigue.

So, apparently the Mariners managed to negotiate a trade for Justin Upton. Who then blocked it with his limited no trade clause. Sigh. I can't blame him- who would want to join that crap sandwich of a team?

Maybe if they didn't have one of the lowest median salaries in the league?

FUCK THIS SHITTY TEAM (http://www.ussmariner.com/2013/01/16/mariners-do-stupid-thing)

Unless this is the first step of some clever over-arching plan (it isn't), I am fucking done with these fucking clowns. They already have a logjam at 1B/DH, and needed a 3rd catcher for emergencies if Jaso and Montero were both in the lineup and one of them got hurt or was pinched for...so they trade a catcher (who was also about their best hitter last season) for ANOTHER 1B/DH stiff. FUCK YOU. I really wish I had purchased tickets before this so I could return them and scream at someone. What a fucking joke of a franchise.

And they did it in-division! Wow.

But they need power right? Power?

Right?  :ye_gods:

Billy Beane strikes again!   :why_so_serious:

Braves just made a trade for Upton #2. Unfortunately we moved our best hitter and our utility guy to get him in Martin Prado. I am not amused.

I... that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Upton seems to be a better hitter than his brother and Johnson seems a decent hitting 3rd baseman but I'm going to bet the Braves set a record for strikeouts this year. You traded away a 69K guy for 2 guys with over 120K's each. The fuck?

On a good note, at least Atlanta fans won't need fans to watch the games.  :awesome_for_real:

They are just looking to provide a nice cool evening breeze for Atlantans on those muggy summer nights.

We are trading for power in the outfield because our numbers in that regard are a disaster. They keep hoping Uggla will turn it around, but the only deep threats on the team were Heyward and Freeman. Chipper could go yard occasionally, but he's gone for good. The other reason is that Upton is younger and cheaper than Prado, who balked at the Braves prelim offer and wanted to go to arbitration. That's a first class ticket out of town in this organization. The last guy to try it was Franceour, and the Braves moved him to the Royals as a fuck you. The major problem is that we're owned by a corp that sees the team as a tax writeoff, and we're hamstrung by a sweetheart TV deal Ted Turner cut before he sold the team until 2030.

My BIG problem with this move is that solo dingers don't mean shit. We have to have people base to make them matter.

The top 10 outfields in history, according to ESPN Insider:  


And Honorable mention:

I think it's bullshit to have the 1927 Yankees behind the 1995 Indians.  So........discuss.

1997 Mariners would have been on that list if they had anyone better than a potted plant in left field. Griffey at his peak (and with 56 HRs), and Jay Buhner with 40 dingers. They had Jose Cruz Jr. (who turned out to be a bust), but traded him, then played a bunch of nobodies. Raul Ibanez was on the team but didn't play much, IIRC. Strange since the list of great Mariner left fielders is long and prestigious. See below.

Great Mariner LFs

I think your list is too extensive.   :awesome_for_real:

I don't know if I can argue with that Indians placement, honestly, that was an utterly ridiculous year as a group.

On the Braves-Diamondbacks trade:

The Braves got a ridiculously good deal on Upton.

Things to keep in mind:

- Upton is under team control for I think 3 years, Prado was under team control for only 1.
- Chris Johnson is going to get some time at 3B and be decent, and 3B was a big problem for the Braves post-Chipper.
- Randall Delgado is like a 4th starter tops, and the Braves are still deep in the rotation.
- The prospects they gave up are not exciting. Ahmed is not really an outstanding prospect - good glove no bat SS dudes are not exactly rare. The pitcher, Spruill, is nothing special, maybe a back end rotation middle bullpen guy if he meets his max potential. Drury is organzational filler.

Yeah, Prado is a good (and fairly predictable) player, but when you put everything on the scales the price they paid looks really, really low to me. Of course there's risk, all trades carry risk. Maybe Upton's thumb injury wasn't the real problem and he's going to turn terrible suddenly. I think it is absolutely a worthwhile risk to take though.

(And from a Giants perspective, the Diamondbacks trade strategy this offseason makes me very happy.)

From the standpoint of Johnson over whatever we were going to have at third it's a steal, I agree there.

We're trading away Prado's better average for better OPS in Upton and longer control (but a lot higher salary). I worry about his oddness in the fielding department. Some years he looks fantasic. Some years he's just fucking around with like 15 errors. That's also concerning with Johnson who's a disaster with the glove at 3rd.

Prado's tough to watch go because he's more consistent but less productive. In a lineup where we had almost zero consistency, that was a good thing, and he was plug-n-play at almost any needed position on the field. He's not as fast though and he's not as powerful.

I also wonder if being in an outfield with his brother is going to be a plus, a minus, or a meh thing. For both of them, really.

God, baseball is so clean (http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8893139/report-alex-rodriguez-others-miami-clinic-ped-lists).   :awesome_for_real:

This could actually be very good for the Yankees, if it ends up giving them a way to get out from under that contract even partially.

Good angle. I didn't think of that. Man, what a deal for them.

They could possibly get rid of their whole fucking roster this way.  Again, they need to start docking teams wins or this is going to go nowhere. 

I don't get the leap there. I'd ban players, but getting rid of wins?

Until you get the teams and the owners on board with keeping players clean it will never happen.  You'll instead get the same treatment the UCI gave Lance and a nudge-nudge, wink-wink style of dealing with the problem.  So unless you hit the owners with a penalty it's never going to change to any great degree.  I don't particularly believe that losing a player for 50 games is a big enough penalty for the owners.  That is unless you just don't really give a shit about getting rid of doping in baseball. 

Don't you just love it when people you loathe keep giving you ammo to fuel your hatred? Thanks, Alex and Ray! What a day  :awesome_for_real:

You know what's coming next though.  These assholes always like to try and retire with the team they started with.   :awesome_for_real:

Meh, burn em all then. I don't mind.

I know that you hate doping.  I'm pretty ambivalent on it, primarily because I don't think they will ever be able to stop the athletes.  This is, in particular, true when the agencies that are in charge of the athletes stand to make so much money from the performance of said athletes.  It's just like with Lance and the UCI.  He very well could burn them down, as you say, if he comes 100% clean.  There was clearly a bribery occurrence with his Tour of Switzerland doping positive. 

Here (http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2013-01-31/news/a-rod-and-doping-a-miami-clinic-supplies-drugs-to-sports-biggest-names/)'s a link to the main article from the Miamuh Times, if anyone cares to read it.  It's pretty amazing. 

A little late to the party here (sorry I have 8 posts now), but I would be shocked if Thomas (Sox fan here but come on), Maddux, and Glavine aren't in the Hall next year.  Biggio not making it this year was really surprising to me.

Jack Morris is probably a dead horse now.  However, if we're measuring "clutchiness", here are his playoff stats against a fellow eligible hall inductee, Curt Schilling:

Morris:  7-4; 3.80 ERA; 1.24 WHIP, 6.2 K/9; 3.1 BB/9; 66.7% of HOF vote
Schilling:  11-2; 2.23 ERA; 0.97 WHIP; 8.1 K/9; 1.7 BB/9; 38.8% of HOF vote

Basically everything Morris was supposed to be in "clutch" time, Schilling actually was (post-career video game studio success notwithstanding).  The vote shows it's really hard to believe baseball writers do this for a living.

Back on track though, my White Sox signing Keppinger is sadly a massive upgrade over their 3B production the last few years.  It's a great deal if they end up trading for Headley (haha).  Lindstrom is a decent signing, but I'm not convinced that what they have will dethrone Detroit in the AL Central.  Getting Peavy back at the price they got was savvy, but I'm pretty convinced that Sale will have some arm injury which will end up putting the Sox out of that race by June.

Whether Toronto is great or totally blows it and disappoints everyone, the value of going to games this year is sky high. I'm actually excited for a baseball season.

Toronto is a contender in the press for the first time in a while. So, I think that's a win.

So who had the bigger sham career?  A-rod, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens, or some other name that isn't mentioned?  Or is it even possible to differentiate any more?

Bonds, because he unapologetically ruined one of the coolest records in baseball.

Before you could make any determination about who was 'worst', you'd have to somehow quantify exactly how much PEDs helped - including the ones used before the late 90s. Good luck with that.

I hate Barry Bonds. I reject your criteria.

Well, you could look at Bonds, McGwire and Sosa and see how their careers changed for the better as time went on.  The problem is that you don't know how much they were juicing and when. 

It's kind of obvious with some of those guys when the juicing began just based on head size.  :awesome_for_real:

Also, it's a known fact that McGwire was seen with Winstrol in his locker during that record-breaking season - it wasn't a banned substance then but everyone knew it was a roid.

Hasn't it been pretty much verified that McGwire, Bonds and Sosa were all doping during their big HR seasons?

I think McGwire finally fessed up to it awhile ago, which doesn't surprise me since it seems like he is somewhat likable and less of a douche bag compared to the other two.

Alright, baseball, I'm ready for you to start again now!

What?  Braun connected with Miamuh PED clinic (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8919375/ryan-braun-name-miami-based-ped-list-according-report)?  Surely you jest......

MLB might as well give up.  Their testing is shite. 

He got caught the first time. Fancy lawyer tricks got him off on a technicality, so Braun's not shocking.

 :-o

Bourn finally has a job... in Cleveland? Not what I expected. I have no clue at all what they're trying to accomplish there, and I'm not sure they do either.

I'm pissed at him and his agent. Boras sold him on the fact he could get $15-16M on the open market, so when the Braves tossed a $13M offer at him for a year, he waved it away. I'm fairly certain if he'd come to the Braves with 4 years $48M, the Justin Upton deal doesn't happen, Bourn's in Center, and we still have Martin Prado on the team.

Boras screwed this up, royally. Bourn could be getting that kind of money from a contending team. He chased the Phillies away with his grandiose requests, and basically told the Mets that the only way his client would play for them is if they gave him a hotel suite on every road game. Ridiculous.

So film at 11, Scott Boras is a money-grubbing douche?

I can deal with money grubbing if you GET it.

When you fuck up the entire process because you totally mismanaged the deal, I can't.

(http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/2/14/17/anigif_enhanced-buzz-18896-1360879956-10.gif)

So ready for baseball (even if it will be a bitch trying to watch games).

Pretty sure we will be going to spring training this year.  :drill:

EDIT: CONFIRMED  :drill:

 Awesome!  Are you guys going to go to the World Baseball Classic?  I'm pissed they finally decide to have the finals in SF after I leave.   :oh_i_see:  I actually went to the Japan Vs. Korea game when they held the finals for the inaugural games in San Diego.  Holy shit, the Koreans came out of the wood work, and it was the most intense baseball crowd I've ever seen.  Was a good game.

Probably not, the finals are on a Tuesday night at 5 PM, not very doable for me.

Chone Figgins is crying to the press about how hard it was to sign a 4 year deal and then get benched in the 2nd year. How about not sucking bodily fluids out of a dead donkey? Seriously, if you couldn't get playing time for the fucking Mariners the past 3 years you are fucking terrible at baseball. Also a whiny rich cunt.

In short-

To be fair to Mr. Figgins, when he was with the Angels, he was one of the most versatile players around, could get on base, had speed and played multiple positions. The contract wasn't a bad one based on past performance. He just happens to have forgotten how to play baseball in the great Northwest. And since baseball contracts can't be restructured like football contracts can, the Mariners were stuck with him.

And if he would have performed to even a small fraction of his Angels days, he would have had 600ABs every year with the Ms. Instead, he was so bad that things like Carlos Peguero were getting more looks than him. So my initial reaction stands.

Yeah speaking of can't restructure, Dan Uggla says hi.  :oh_i_see:

Expecting any athlete to be self-aware enough to think they don't deserve to start is asking too much, that's not how most of them are wired.

As for his contract, it is 100% retarded and all the blame lies with the Mariners.

Let's take a 31 year old speed player, who has only played 1 full season out of his 3 most recent, and who is coming off a fluke season where his WAR was double his prior best (which was at this point his age 27 season, 5 years ago) - and sign him to a big money multi year contract that puts him into a park that will *predictably* depress his power and average to levels that would demoralize anyone, and on top of that we'll move him to a position he's never played regularly (and hadn't played hardly at all since that same age 27 season), *away* from a position where he had Gold Glove type numbers. What could go wrong?

The Mariners did pretty much every possible thing they could do to set him up to fail. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they made him room with Milton Bradley, too.  :why_so_serious:

I hope so. Those two deserve each other.

As a Cubs fan, I would just like to take this opportunity to thank the Mariners' organization again for taking Milton Bradley off our hands.

I am actually surprised Carlos Silva didn't become Godzilla-sized with all the good eats in Chicago.

Sorry if this was (very likely) mentioned in here already, but the atmosphere here in Toronto regarding the club is echoing the feel of the early nineties with the Jays (obviously 92). Like everyone I'm super psyched, but I'm a bit more (okay a fucking lot more) of a pessimist than those around me, and I never count my chickens early. A sad, lonely part of me will be waiting every game for the wheels to fall off.

Dominican Republic wins the World Baseball Classic!!!!!!


Ok, I know none of you care, but I still had fun following along.   :awesome_for_real:

I cared a little bit - but mostly because I want to see if we have good Strop or WTF HAPPENED Strop coming into this season.   :awesome_for_real:

From the filth he was throwing in the seventh, I think we're looking good.

I was rooting for PR (once Venezuela got knocked out, anyway.)

I not a huge baseball fan, but the excitement being generated nationwide about Toronto has me interested... until I realize that they pillaged the players from a team that only won 69 games last year.

God I hate the MLB.TV app pricing and blackout rules.  This is the god damn dumbest thing ever. 24.99 a month and you of course will be blacked out from any local game you want to watch.  Ended up just sucking it up and paying the $10 bucks to upgrade my cable package back to where I got MASN so I can watch the Orioles.

But seriously, this is ridiculous.

Baseball has quite possibly the WORST fucking blackout rules in existence. When I was on DirecTV, I shelled out for the sports package that had all the regional sports networks. So I paid my money but anytime there was a game IN my region, it was blacked out. But even when it wasn't in my region, it would sometimes be blacked out and I couldn't figure out what the reason was. If there's a game in San Francisco, chances are I'm not making it to the stadium to watch the game commuting all the way from Mississippi, no matter who the team is. So let me watch the fucking game on the channel I paid EXTRA to get. Hockey and basketball were the same way. It made the regionals one big fucking waste of money because they were all versions of Fox Sports, meaning they'd all show the "Best Damn Sports Show" at the same time, so if you got one of the channels you got them all.

It might have blacked out the games out of region instead of in, I don't remember. Once I figured out what they were doing, I stopped trying to watch the useless things.

Yet I get every fucking Jays game ever for whatever reason.  :why_so_serious:

Welp - if I believe the experts, I better enjoy today's win since apparently the Orioles are only going to win like 12 games this season. 

Toronto didn't look great against the Indians.

I always found trying to judge any team based on their first week or two of play pretty  :awesome_for_real:.  Everything is always a bit loopy right out of spring training before reality has a chance to set in.

You can't really judge a team's chance of winning the division until after memorial day.

However, you can tell if a team is going to be a greasefire in about two weeks.

Unless it's the A's.

Yeah, they are making the clownshoes Mariners look good. Which will make the Ms inevitable thud into the basement all the more shocking for the vast majority of their ill-informed fans.

I think the Mariners might be better than .500 this year.

Only if they get to play Houston 90 times. The pitching staff is hot garbage after Felix and Iwakuma. And Morse will get busted for shooting elephant testosterone into his scrotum or something any day now. He looks like a goddamned caveman.

I'm not exactly scared of the AL West this year. Houston is a trashheap, I think Texas is due for some falloff, and the Angels/Oakland have some serious pitching questions coming out of training.

Seattle can go .500 there. They were only 7 short of it last year.

Nice GRANDO by Chris Davis today for the Orioles to bust open the game against the Twins. That dude can rip it.

Davis is historically insanely hot right now. Only the 4th player in baseball history to hit four homers in his first four games.  And I CAN NOT believe they did an IW to get to him.  That's just asking for exactly what they got.   

This is so awesome to watch.

Braves had a bad game going against the Cubs, but they got a late rally going. In the ninth down by 1, BJ Upton hits a jack for his first hit of the year to tie the game, and then his brother Jason hits the game winning walk off jack. Amazing!

You couldn't script it better.

Thanks for taunting Chris Davis guys!  It only went to the deepest part of the park.   :drill:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26182399&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_26182399&v=3

Bonus reaction gif

I see your Chris Davis and raise you Evan Gattis!

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26193461&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_26193461&v=3

His shot landed in the pool at the Clevelander.

If you're willing to jump in the pool for it, you absolutely deserve that ball too.

Man, I feel bad for the Cubs after that series. Kinda.

Don't feel too bad, the Cubs could be the Marlins.

The fact Selig hasn't removed their owner yet is a complete sham. That team is the biggest disaster in baseball. Nobody has been close to this bad in a decade. In fact, only 6 teams ever have lost 10 of 12 and scored fewer than 20 runs. In over a freaking century. Every player on that team should refuse to play until they get released from their contracts. Stanton especially. I feel horrible for that kid.

You should always feel bad for the Cubs. They are going to be abysmal this year. Yes, they have more offense than Miami but they are still going to be B-A-D bad. Trying to restock the farm system as well as not rush along guys too fast while basically having seat warmers filling 2nd and 3rd base and overpaying a guy in decline to be your #4 hitter while striking out over 100 times and barely hitting .260 will do that. Also, their pitching is pretty terrible too. And defense.

Holy shit, even San Diego has scored more runs than the Marlins in that park. Wow. The Marlins are really really bad.

It's not so much the badness as the WAY they lost the 3 games they lost, heartbreaking end of game stuff over and over again.

Braves are 11-1.  :drill:

WTF Matt Cain.

Also Braves are 12-2. They finally got shut out in a day game. Silly Royals.

Yeah he's been a little homer-ific this year so far. I'm pretty comfortable he'll get it together, he's not mechanically all weird like Timmy.

Did he give up one to the pitcher?

Yeah, he gave one up to Kershaw earlier in the season too. It happens.

Surprise team of the first 30 games? Colorado being 18-13 with a +27 run diff.

Surprise disaster of the first 30 games? The LA Angels and Toronto Blue Jays with only 11 wins, and run diffs worse than -30. Yikes.

The obvious solution is for the dodgers to spend even more money.

They are on the honorable mention disaster list, along with the Phillies.

I thought the jays were supposed to be good!


I WAS LIED TOO  :why_so_serious:

Yeah.  Toronto is fucking awful. 

I don't want to jinx it, but I think maybe Matt Cain has remembered that he prefers to not be a shitty pitcher.

He was fine, but that 4th inning would given any opposing pitcher confidence. It was just a death by 1000 cuts type of explosion.

There's a solid chance the Braves lose again today with Maholm on the mound since he does really poorly against Pence, Posey, and Pagan. If the Braves can't control 2 of those 3, they lose. On the other side, Justin Upton and Freddie Freeman can ruin Bumgarner's day if he gets walk happy.

The Orioles express train of starting pitching from last year seems to have returned for this season.  Good times - this season is going to be the death of me at this rate.

Look at it this way, you have more wins than the Yankees with a payroll that's less than half the size!  :why_so_serious:

Yeah, it's just Cain has been pretty not-good so far this season (although he was good versus the Dodgers, but uh. The Dodgers aren't very good right now), so it was nice to see him be good against an actual good team. Bumgarner has been one of the Giants pitchers that hasn't had a crappy start to the season (the other is fucking Zito, which I find both hilarious and :uhrr: ) so as long as he doesn't decide it's his turn to suck, that part of the game should not cause too much despair.


(now we're going to lose 11-0)

Nah it's turning out like I thought. Maholm matches up poorly against that lineup. Medlen has a much better shot tomorrow because the Braves hit Lincecum better than most.

I think it's a 2-2 split at the end of the series.

Or Medlen can pitch like he didn't look at a scouting report, and the Lincecum can have a career day.

Our road pitching has been terrible.  :oh_i_see:

It's nice to see Tim actually pitched like he remembered "oh right, it's totally more fun to not be a shitty pitcher." I hope it lasts, but I won't be surprised if he was just trolling the Braves.  :why_so_serious:

The Braves starters are so hilariously shitty on the road, it might have just been a troll. I mean Tim Hudson has an ERA of 6.97 on the road, and 2.84 at home. The hell is that? Does he have a special old man back pillow he has to sleep with at home?

Cubs just signed Rizzo to a shockingly team-friendly deal.

 :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods: :ye_gods:

SEVEN YEARS, $41 million extension, absolutely NO no-trade clause? He needs to fire his fucking agent, stat. Holy shit, talk about a hometown discount.

I think the O's are trying to steal a bit of Tampa's mojo here, but since it gives us this, I'm okay with that.

Team Canadian Tuxedo

Close-up of AJ and Machado

Some fun with our early predictions, now that we're past Memorial Day.

The Yankees are just baffling. Fuckin' Travis Hafner and Vernon Wells, out of nowhere.

How are the Jays doing? Did we win the world series yet?

The Jays are the biggest shock in a bad way. The Yankees are the biggest shock in a good way, and the Pirates for some reason actually have pitching that works.

Speaking of Romero:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/36515/can-ricky-romero-be-saved

I feel bad for the guy, but man, do I find Steve Blass Disease fascinating. Although I still think it should be called LOL STEVE SAX Disease.

Since I know and am resolved to the fact that my Cubs are going to SUCK IT HARD this year, I think I've decided to root for the Pirates. I feel bad for any team that has been held down that long by ineptitude. I won't root for them against the Cubs of course, but if somebody's got to win the Central, I want it to be the Pirates.

And holy fuck, AJ Burnett... when did he become a strikeout pitcher?

I also think it's criminal how bad the Angels, Dodgers and Jays have been considering their offseason moves and wish the Yankees would just fall off a cliff.

The funny thing is, if you told me at the beginning of the season that Carl Crawford would turn it around, I would have been REALLY worried about the Dodgers.

I know the season isn't over yet, and in theory the Jays could go on like a 50 game win streak or whatever... but are people getting fired over this?

Like, coach, manager, GM? Who do I blame for this cluster fuck?

Well you have a manager you already fired once for being incompetant. Soooo, I'm going to blame the GM for hiring him a second time, and also for moving Doc Halladay, Vernon Wells, Mike Napoli, Juan Rivera, and he traded Aaron Hill for Kelly Johnson. I mean he's an idiot. How he still has a job is nothing short of amazing.

Now wait a minute, you can't blame the guy for trading Wells, even Wells probably didn't think he was going to be any good anymore.

I don't blame him for it, but it's sort of in a line of snakebit decisions.

Actually now that I refresh my memory, Wells leaving was FANTASTIC for Toronto. He sucked ass for 2 years in Anaheim immediately after leaving. So that goes in the 'good' column for Anthropolous, not the 'bad' column.

^ That. ^

Angels' fans were begging for Wells to be dumped. And Halladay was on the aging side and the team likely wasn't going to be playoff bound with or without him.

He was very active this offseason, it just appears as if all his moves blew up in his face.

I still blame him for the coach hire.

Anyway if you want the bullet point summary for Toronto sucking this year, Fordel:

- The pitching has been wretched. Their "ace" pitcher is at 5.18 ERA. (RA Dickey - who was one of their big splashy offseason moves.) Every starting pitcher they have suddenly sucks or is hurt.
- Players that they picked up who had huge upside but scary injury histories have gotten injured instead of paying off. Jose Reyes is the biggest loss, but him getting injured wasn't exactly unpredictable.
- A shitload of other players keep getting hurt too. They have like 38 million dollars in salary on the disabled list.

I'm going to go with the GM. And maybe the trainer and pitching coach.

The bullpen is a fucking disaster as well, not just the starters. The Braves knocked them + the "Ace" around for 11 when they put in the good lineup.

That's the score I was thinking off most recently, I saw it on the news ticker, Jays 3, Atlanta 11 (or whatever). Like we aren't just getting beat, we are getting slaughtered it seems.


Like, I know fuck all about baseball, but I'm pretty sure having the other team quadruple your score is pretty bad.  :why_so_serious:

Oh, Milton - If Only You Could Have Hit Like That With the Cubs (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ex-major-leaguer-milton-bradley-023025607--mlb.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cubsfeed+%28Ultimate+Chicago+Cubs+Feed%29&utm_content=Netvibes)

So yeah, Milton Bradley in trouble with the law for threatening and beating his wife, at least once because she asked him not to smoke weed in front of their kids. What a dumpster fire. I'm so glad the Cubs pawned him off on Seattle. Fuck you, Milton.

Speaking of crappy pitching, the Giants have been pretty bleh in that department this season!

The Nats have also taken a dump lately with Strasburg now going on the DL.

So any bets on whether or not A-Rod, Braun and crew get a slap on the wrist? 

If there's anything at all to this whole thing, anything they can remotely point at to say these guys were sold steroids, I expect 50 games each. Whether that will happen, I give about 50-50 chance. I do expect lawsuits and appeals if anybody gets suspended.

Braun will get suspended for sure. He escaped on a technicality before, and I seriously doubt the MLBPA will advocate hard for a guy who's been on supremely thin ice already.

A-Rod will be tougher, especially if they got the information after the guy tried to blackmail A-Rod.

2nd offense is 100 games, no?

I just don't see any of these guys getting suspended.  For one, it's going to be very tough to prove, and two, baseball really doesn't want to see their stars get suspended.

According to Braun and his agent, his name only appeared there because they sought out the clinic for consultation when his "tainted" sample was being challenged. If it turns out they have records of him buying shit, yeah, he's fucking gone for 50.

He's pretty  much a douchebag.  He should be suspended for 50 just for that.

Disagree. Neither of these guys are well-loved nationally. I'm not sure A-Rod is even loved in his current town. Milwaukee will back Braun to the death because he took a smaller deal to stay, but they are also so far out of first in the Central that it's a perfect time to suspend him.

I thought they were going to get people for 100 games if they were interviewed about connections to the clinic and later found out to be guilty.  50 for the offense and another 50 for lying about it to investigators.  

That's what I've read.  It will probably get negotiated down though as I'm sure the MLBPA will appeal.

I wouldn't be so sure of the appeals. They may be like contractually obligated to help the players appeal (which is where I think the lawsuits will start flying) but I don't think their heart will be in it. There's not a lot of good PR in defending a bunch of juicers.

Not when the players specifically agreed to increased testing to weed them out.

If my dad is any indication, Yankee fans are hoping A-Rod DOES get suspended, because fuck that choking asshole.

And because then Yankees ownership may have room to wiggle out of what may be the WORST contract in the history of baseball professional sports.

As a Red Sox fan I'm kinda hoping, in a wierd way, he doesnt get suspended.. :grin:

 Interesting article on abolishing the MLB draft and replacing it with something else (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9348666/the-mlb-draft-work-quite-possibly-immoral-replace-it)

Personally I think the replacement system would fuck over small market/shitty teams if player's actually have a choice where they can sign (or drive up costs of signing those players it keeps them shitty).

You know how to solve most of baseball's problems?

1 - Put in a salary cap on the damn thing (the fact we still don't have one when every other major league does is absurd)
2 - Get rid of 100% guaranteed contracts

That's it. That's all you have to do.

IMO it's the other sports that should be implementing guaranteed contracts, not baseball that should be getting rid of it.

There's a fine line. I don't like the NFL system of nothing being guaranteed really because it creates ridiculous misunderstanding of what and who is getting paid.

OTOH, far too often baseball teams get crippled by bad contracts and there is zero relief. There is no reason, as an example, that a contract should be completely independent of performance like Dan Uggla, or Arod, or any player that's totally stealing cash. A simple vesting percentage that would allow teams to buy out of a contract would be fine.

I don't think teams should be able to weasel out of their stupid mistakes, myself. It's a competitive thing - no takebacks!

For that exact reason of it being a competitive thing, I don't think players should be able to just quit on a team. There has to be some incentive to playing harder, just as there has to be some incentive to keep a guy on the roster. I would just like more incentive based compensation, not less.

I think it's really rare for a player to actually quit on a team. There's not a big problem there that needs solving.

If you had Dan Uggla, I think you'd feel different. Or Mike Hampton. Or maybe BJ, although I hope not.

Just thought I'd mention that Toronto now has starting pitchers with the names Dickey, Johnson and Wang. :awesome_for_real:

Is that because they all suck dick?  :why_so_serious:

Man, Detroit is fun to watch. A ton of badass starting pitchers, Cabrera / Prince, and a lot of guys just flat out playing good ball.

This is their year, folks.

And Scherzer is 9-0. Woot

Got to love Don Mattingly going after someone (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1670201-dodgers-diamondbacks-brawl-erupts-after-zack-greinke-gets-drilled-by-ian-kennedy?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t3) in the Dodgers/Diamondbacks "brawl".  I use that term loosely because it's barely a fight.

I'm starting to believe this may be the Cardinals year unless something awful happens to them. They are so far superior to every team in the NL right now in terms of lineup, it's almost unfair. Oh and their pitching is also the best in the MLB.

Cards v. Tigers could be the early favorite at the break.

God damn it.  Was way too hot to sit outside in the sun to watch Strop implode and give up 6 runs in a single inning.

Braves are getting drilled by the Padres again. We're probably going to get swept. I hate the west coast trips.

MLB.TV Premium price cut to $49.99 (http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/subscriptions/index.jsp?&c_id=mlb&affiliateId=mlbMENU) (for rest of year) for Fathers Day promotion.

Works on iOS, Android, AppleTV, XBox 360, PS3, Roku and a smattering of Smart TVs.

Thinking about subbing, especially since we cut out satellite/cable last year.

Don't do it if your favorite team is local.  They black out the local games on the app. It's complete ass.

Apologies for the stench emanating from the NW corner of the country. Just the Astros and Ms taking baseball to another all time low. God what a fucking garbage fire.

So much for my theory that Seattle might get to .500

They would have to play something like .600 ball* to get there by now. Not a fucking chance. Especially with Eric 'by the book' Wedge actively interfering with the few games they actually have a chance to win. God he is an asshole.


*e- only .560. Still ain't happenin'.

Well to be fair, I thought that division would be way down. I didn't buy into the Angels hype, and I believed Texas was due for their usual summertime step back. The fly in that plan was Oakland, who is just ripping it up with absolutely no coverage on them whatsoever nationally.

Or locally, for the most part.

Speaking of that, the Giants quietly started falling apart while I wasn't looking.

Are the Angels just a rolling dumpster fire or what? How is it possible for Hamilton to be hitting .216 in JUNE, and Pujols to only have 11 home runs? At least the Dodgers have injuries to blame, but I don't see a lot of injuries at the key positions for the Angels. It's just a lot of money WAY underperforming. It's too bad, because young guys like Trout shouldn't be stuck on such terrible teams.

Did the BlueJays wins the world series yet?

No Fordel, they only need to win their next 20 in a row to get right back in this thing though!

It is awesome as a Mariners fan because they are proper FUCKED by massive contracts for the next decade. Moreno can spend his way out of it if he chooses, but it is something like half a billion. Plus Trout and Trumbo will be ready for significant raises soon too.

More like stopped getting lucky, we've been about this bad all season - and now the top 3 in our order all hit the DL. I'm not even sure it's worth a midseason trade to try to salvage the pitching; the Scutaro injury is just a kick in the nuts.

Understood. Bummer, even if D-backs are not my favorite team. Also, no post-season games included either

All the post season games should be on national TV of one kind or another.

Yes, on cable, of which many have cut that cord.

There's still hope then!  :why_so_serious:

I'm getting pissed off at our manager again. He seems to be of the Bobby Cox philosophy that the only way out of a slump is to play the same lineup over and over with no changes. Thing is, the Braves are mired in a horrible slump from about 60% of the lineup right now, and our bench guys are getting no play at all.

Yikes, thanks for the giftwrap there Giants  :grin:

4 in a row so far  :awesome_for_real:

EDIT: 5 with a sweep. Perhaps?

5 in a row and only 5.5 out of the wild card.  Good thing there's still lots of games to play.  Their starting pitching has been awful, though it has been better lately, but the bullpen has been a beast and is what has gotten them this far.

6 in a row.

7 in a row. If they get to 10 they've actually have a winning record.

With the way Angel Hernandez is calling this game who the fuck cam tell what's happen.

On a bit of a side note.   Really recommend watching Knuckleball on Netflix.  Really fun film.

You can thank me later Fordel, my sarcasm has put you over a .500 record with 10 in a row!  :why_so_serious:

11.  :grin:

The Giants are so bad poor Jon Miller is reduced to trying to convince me that Brandon Crawford hitting a line drive into an out is a really positive sign and I should be happy about it.

What exactly has gone wrong with them? I'm watching that entire division struggle it seems like.

injuries + hot players regressing to the mean + bad pitchers

What in the hell happened to the pitching? I mean besides losing Vogelsong has anything shifted in that rotation from the championship rotation?

Matt Cain has been giving up HRs this year, Zito is Zito, Lincecum is still bad Lincecum (and will be staying that way), only Bumgarner has been consistently good. The bullpen has also taken several steps back from years past, especially IMO Affeldt.

I think Matt Cain is basically back to good, he's been pitching pretty well lately and was really great today (still giving up too many HRs I guess but NOT TODAY). Unfortunately the team is back to not scoring any fucking runs for him.

The bullpen has been totally crap, though.

The only reason the Braves are out front of our division now is because our pitching has been lights out in June. The RISP hitting for this team is atrocious.

Well Homer Bailey sort of made your point, I suppose.

Basically every Giants hitter not named Buster Posey is nursing some sort of 2 for 25, 3 for 23, etc., sort of slump.

That division is still wide open, that's the silly part.

When did the NL West become a rolling dumpster fire?  :uhrr:

Think what it would be like if Puig hadn't shown up. Nobody would ever realize they are playing baseball out there. If the Giants fail and the Dodgers can't get it together, ESPN might as well just shut down its West Coast coverage and stuff the AL East so far up our collective asses we can taste A-Rod's shame.

You aren't already picking that out of your teeth?  ARod is fucking everywhere already.  It couldn't get worse.

As for his "No Hitter", I want to know how the fuck they called that play at 3rd a fielder's choice?  There was no way they were going to get the hitter at first.  It should have been ruled a single. 

Did you hear he's back in AAA?

DID YOU HEAR?

Yes, it's pervasive and obnoxious. Let's see who is on Wednesday night baseball? Mets and Dbacks. They will do anything to mildly interest the NY Market.

I think there is one of those in every no-hitter tbh.

I was thinking I'd take time on July 4th to watch a baseball game, checked my guide to see who was playing on my TV. Every single fucking game is a good team vs. a total trainwreck team. The most interesting game listed is Orioles v. White Sox or Cubs v. A's. I'm not sure either one will be worth watching.

Do what I'm doing; go to a batting cage.  I went a couple of weeks ago and was depressed at how much of my timing is gone.  I struggled to make solid contact in the 70 MPH cage. 

Watch Cubs and A's - the A's are a great under the radar team and I suspect you don't get a ton of chances to see them unless you have some kind of full MLB package.

Oakland's pitching staff will carry them far. It's not just a bunch of starters you mostly never heard of. It's actually the pen that's the most ridiculously awesome. They almost refuse to walk people.

I was leaning that way anyway because I'd get to see the Cubs, as painful as that probably will be.

Half of the All-Star starting roster this year for the NL is a joke. I hate letting fans vote when it actually decides the fucking world series. Somebody just shoot Bud Selig.

Oh and the Braves only getting a single player when we have one of the top 10 average and RISP hitters in the league isn't helping my ire.

The Baseball All-Star game has been a goddamn joke for years. Making it matter just made the joke on the teams as well as the fans.

The NL roster is more or less fine, its the AL player votes more than the fan votes that are really dumb - and their final vote 5 is also awful. Josh Donaldson should be on that team.

He plays for Oakland, so he might as well not exist.

ESPN is a bunch of soreass losers!  :why_so_serious:

#VoteFreddie wins. Take that, you carpetbaggers!

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/9470482/a-backlash-yasiel-puig

Yeah, I wonder why the entire south would be pissed off about having a rookie crammed down our throats so you can further fellate the LA or NY Markets ESPN? I'll give a clue why he lost, it's because Freddie Freeman is a great player and because ESPN tried to fix the election.

I am pleased it isn't Puig. Jeff Francoeur was hot shit for 2 months or so too.

Heard yall picked him up.

He would have been a great player if he wasn't such an entitled dipshit while he was here. Then again, a lot of that was the media overkill about his start and I think it absolutely went to his head. It was a rude awakening for him when he got married and started to suck at the plate so bad the Braves were going to send him to AAA. Then, he had the lack of common sense to mouth off about it.

Now, who knows. I think he's always going to be a liability at the plate as an everyday guy, but his arm is one of the best in baseball.

No, he was never going to be a great player. His plate discipline is shitty and has always been shitty, it isn't an improvable skill for him. And it isn't coupled with Vlad/Panda-like ability to hit balls that are about to him him in the head.

I'm loving this start to the Cubs-Cards game.

What makes it even more comical is that Hanley Ramirez, who has played the exact same number of games but with fewer ABs, has nearly identical numbers as Puig.  Is anyone talking about putting Ramirez in the All Star game.  Puig may or may not end up being a good player, but right now its pure hype.  On a related All Star note, theres no way Jose Batista should be playing, let alone starting.

Bautista's numbers look fine to me, and I think he's worthy of starting. #4 outfielder in the AL in OPS, #3 outfielder in WAR, 3rd in OF home runs with more walks than the 2 guys ahead of him put together, and a relatively low strikeout total for his type of hitter. He's having a good season.

Also I think someone finally reminded Timmy it's a contract year.  :awesome_for_real:

EDIT: Although after throwing 148 pitches his arm might just fall right off.

Like Homer Bailey, it just shows how these can come randomly.

Well not completely randomly, the Padres are a total mess right now, and I honestly thought you could no-hit the Braves lineup lineup any night you get the K working.

HR Derby won by a guy I'd never heard of. Looked him up and saw he played on the A's. I chuckled.  :why_so_serious:

The Home Run Derby is fucking lame. 

And I find it funny that I've actually heard of a baseball player that you have not, since I rarely pay much attention any more.   :why_so_serious:

You've never heard of Cespedes? He was a fairly high profile defector from Cuba just a couple years ago.

Honestly no. I have next to no tabs on the AL on this coast. I think the closest AL team we have is Tampa or Baltimore. I do get a good bit of those on the TV, along with Texas, NY and Boston. Other than that? I know next to nothing about who plays where on the DH version of baseball.

I mean, when you play in the best division in baseball, well...yeah.  We had every team over .500 at one point this season.

Also, SUCK IT QUOTING TWO WEEKS AGO.  Welcome back me.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/82533/headslap.gif)

Brewers and Marlins play a 13 inning scoreless game that still took less time than the Yankees and Red Sox.

This is ridiculous.

EDIT: I said that in the 8th as we were approaching 4 hours. Little did I know this one would go extras too! LONGEST GAME EVER.

I saw the highlights of that Marlins/Brewers game this morning. How have the Marlins gone 37 straight innings without scoring a run?

Because their entire team payroll is less than what the Dodgers spend on two outfielders?

I'm not a baseball fan, but I imagine Ryan Braun getting suspended for the rest of the year (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22849636/ryan-braun-admits-ped-use-suspended-for-rest-of-2013) is a big deal.

Well, now he'll have more time to work on his douchey clothing line.

He ruined a guy's reputation trying to defend himself from a fully failed test. Fuck him. He should be suspended for life. Having to test positive 3 times is a fucking joke.

EDIT: Life was too strong.

It isn't a big deal in terms of impact on the season, as the Brewers weren't going anywhere.

Which makes it all the more ridiculous that he's allowed to continue playing.

Yeah, Braun getting to skate on that first charge was just bullshit. I'm glad to see he's finally getting it, though really... it won't mean shit to him. He'll make more money next year when his salary goes up, the Brewers weren't anywhere near the playoffs, even 50 games is a slap on the wrist. And A-Rod, who admitted taking steroids before didn't serve a suspension for it so fuck him too.

My friend in Milwaukee has been appalled at how many people in the city just keep defending Braun all the way down. Even after he's admitted it, they want him to keep playing. It's absurd.

Well, he's never actually admitted to using PEDs.  He has admitted to "mistakes" that he has made.   :why_so_serious:

Good news- The Mariners have won 7 straight. The bad news? They are still 5 games under .500. They became a shitton more watchable when the promoted all the kids who can actually hit the goddamned ball at least.

I really hope they finish over .500 so my beginning of the year prediction on them doesn't look ridiculous.  :why_so_serious:

Beyond admitting to his "mistakes" he's ot even contesting the charges.

For now, the best thing that could happen imo is if Aaron Rodgers (even partially) would "#ponyup" on his "bet" (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/07/fan-who-won-twitter-bet-with-aaron-rodgers-id-take-a-game-check/) regarding Braun's PED use.  :why_so_serious:

Reading that tweet hurt my brain.

Of course he's not contesting the charges.  He agreed to a settlement prior to them being released.  His "admission" was probably very carefully worded by MLB as well. 

Yep, the real fight it coming later this week when they try to ban ARod for life. He's going to legally battle that tooth and nail.

I doubt we'll see that.  The punishment will likely be similar to the one Braun got as I'm sure the evidence is overwhelming and Rodriguez will want to keep the impact to the minimum possible.

That's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that the MLB wants to make an example of A-Rod regardless of what he wants.

There are sources reporting lifetime ban is on the table. I don't see it happening in the end though, if I had to take a guess I'd say 100 games.

I bet the Yankees are cheering that on.

Does his contract get voided if he eats a life time ban?

Yes, which is I'm sure what's pushing MLB in that direction.

You bet your sweet ass they'd like to see him get a lifetime ban.  I just don't see it happening and sticking.

A Rod is such a piece of shit though.  He definitely deserves it.

In concert with what we're talking about, A Rod thinks the Yankees are against him (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/9505893/alex-rodriguez-reps-think-new-york-yankees-mlb-conspiring-slugger).   :awesome_for_real:

"This [situation on Wednesday] has nothing to do with anything except he wants to be back on the field," a friend of Rodriguez said.

We all know that's bullshit. If the Yankees paid him $75M right now to never come back, he'd walk away quietly. This is only about the money, period, end of story. He knows he's never getting in the Hall, that all of his records are complete shit, and that he will be remembered as one of the most overpaid lying assholes in all of baseball. He's just clawing desperately to get paid, because that's the only thing he has left.

It ain't like that dirtbag needs the money. If I had $75M to piss away, I'd give it to him just to get him the fuck out of the sport.

And Ryan Braun can eat a dick.

Thought: Hiroki Kuroda may be the most underrated pitcher in baseball, which is amazing considering where he plays.

He's certainly pitching the best season of his career so far

Which isn't really saying much.

Uh, go back and look at his numbers.

Fairly average looking, as far as I can tell.

When you get swept at home by the Cubs, is that the last sign that the season is over?

The season has been over for a while!

(Also, lawl, the White House visit is today. Bet they'll be in a good mood for that.)

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/dodgers/2013/07/30/brian-wilson-signs-minor-league-contract-with-dodgers/2600467/)

Good for him. He gets to play for a contender if he's still viable.

So I went to see the Rays again on Tuesday, the game after Sam Fuld's terrific assist (yes, we all know he was safe at home, but herp derp move on).  My two friends and I were sitting one row off the fence in left field and Fuld was subbed in defensively in the 7th inning.  The season ticket members and myself were commenting just what a classy player he is just loudly enough for him to hear. Mid at-bat he turns around and tips his cap to us.   :grin:

The Rays have an amazingly special group of players this year.  Or, maybe I'm biased because I played against Matt Joyce as a kid.

I think the Braves v. the Rays in the World Series would be funny because when you say the names out loud, they sound really similar.

This would be the hardest series for me.  I know where I was in '95.  :)

I will never understand why Felix Hernandez continues to sign contracts with and play hard for the Seattle Mariners. What a fucking garbage fire. Last night was the 29th time in his career he has gotten a no decision after leaving a game having given up 0 or 1 run. And they had a fucking 5 run lead with 3 outs to go. Jesus. Fire everyone involved in constructing this abortion into the sun. They already wasted the career of one first ballot HOF'er this century, and they have wasted half of another.

So they aren't .500 yet is what you're saying.

They hit 50 wins and flatlined. Boston just fucking owns them. Especially @ Fenway.

It seems like they've got some nice up and coming hitting talent. Just no bullpen or starting pitching outside of the King. They also currently have 1 more win than the Cubs, so...

If they can A) shitcan Morse and Ibanez, B) sign Morales to a decent deal, then C) find a way to sign Elllsbury and a D) decent back end starter on the offseason they could be very watchable next season.

That being said I expect the fuckheads running the team to resign Morse and Ibanez, let Morales go, miss on Ellsbury, panic and overpay for Choo (who they traded away for DICK when he was a prospect) and then fill the rotation with more garbage like Saunders and Bonderman while waiting for Walker/Hultzen/Paxton to be ready.

I just noticed, apart from Ryan Braun, everyone who was recently suspended for PEDs was Hispanic.  I'm not sure what to think of that.

Well, the clinic was in Miami, right?

It means that people who come from shitty backgrounds in 3rd world countries will do whatever they can to not go back to their previous situation, and as foreigners who don't (always) speak the language, they have a harder time not getting caught? No real difficult conclusions to draw here.

Weren't some of them also introduced by their agents?  Wouldn't be surprising that they'd be more reliant and trusting in their agents due to the language issue.

Yep - and because of the way baseball works in Latin America these guys were signed up with their agents at like age 16 in a lot of cases, which is a long time to build up an "I 100% trust this guy, he got my family out of poverty, I will do what he suggests" sort of relationship.

And unless your name is A-Rod, chances are losing 50 games isn't a significant economic impact when compared with the entirety of your career (and even if your name is A-Rod, it ain't much). We're entering the territory of "cost of doing business."

Miami is a wealthy town with a hispanic population of about 70%.  I would imagine a lot of these spanish only guys have a home there for at least the off season.  It's not shocking that the clinic had a lot of hispanic guys in this area.  If the clinic was in Detroit it would probably be a different mix. 

Looks like Dan Uggla is going to have eye surgery. I suppose this is the last ditch effort to prove he's not a complete disaster as a player.

Meh, he's got good enough power and draws so many walks that he doesn't need to hit for average to be valuable. This is the first season where I'd say he's actually been a problem (last year he was pretty average overall), and that's as much to do with his bad defense as his Rob Deer impression at the plate. If he can get back up to hitting .240 or so he's legitimately good.

He hasn't been close to .240 since he set foot in Atlanta. Last year all his value was in his OBP since he walked a ton. Now? If he wasn't hitting homers, he was a turnstile.

.233 is pretty close to .240.  :-P

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised when middle infielders over 30 fall off a cliff, in any case. Robinson Cano is a very dangerous free agent.

His .216 average in Atlanta overall isn't  :why_so_serious:

This is worth watching if you enjoy bad baseball (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1738542-blue-jays-rajai-davis-scores-after-comedy-of-errors-on-simple-grounder).

Love this column.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9718373/mariano-rivera-overrated-well-beloved-respected

He makes a good point about winning percentages with leads, but it really highlights how stupid the specialization of pitching has become. Now you need 4 relievers to finish a game or more, where two decades ago that would have been totally absurd. I'm not sure it's made the game better at all, or made fans or managers better at watching or working within the game.

Apparently Bud Selig is stepping down. (https://twitter.com/carolynmanno/status/383281295633424384)

That's not breaking news. He's been talking about that for months.

Let him hurry the hell up. And while he's at it, apologize for the steroid era and the All-Star game, the fucking hack.

I don't follow baseball, but the sports people that I do follow seem to be surprised about it. Just trying to pass it along.

Did Bud cause the "Steroid Era"?  And when exactly was this era? 

He didn't cause it, he encouraged it along with the other owners who were raking in profits while ignoring testing. I consider the "era" to be from the mid-90s up to in many cases 2010 with the ARod thing and Bonds getting indicted.

It started long, long before the mid-90s. I'd count from the day Jose Canseco was called up, if not earlier.

I'm not averse to that time period either. I don't think it was as widespread in the 80s though.

So, did the Bluejays win the world series yet?  :why_so_serious:

They juuuuuuust missed it. By 24 games.

Damn, so close!

Giants finish 76-86... but have a winning record against every other team in their division. This game!

Anyone wanna make playoff predictions?

ALCS: Red Sox over Tigers in 7
NLCS: Cardinals over Dodgers in 6.

WS: Red Sox over Cardinals in 5.

I'll start with Pirates over Reds tonight.

Then we'll see...

Love to see the Pirates go deep into the playoffs.

I'm not making any predictions this year, but I am rooting for Oakland and I think they have a decent shot.

Screw it - underdog World Series.  Pirates vs Rays would be fun as hell.

I don't want the Rays if for no other reason than they don't have fans.

Pirates / Tribe!

Oh dear god that would be awesome.

Unless the Tribe lost and then entire city of Cleveland might kill itself. That wouldn't be cool.

Slightly bizarre that 4 of the Oakland A's starting lineup are Red Sox castoffs.

Oakland and Detroit are battling to see which city doesn't get foreclosed on.

jesus this a's/tigers game

Looks like it's going 5 now.

Bases loaded with no outs turning into not scoring a single run was a very Giants way to handle that situation.  :why_so_serious:

Scherzer pulled that out of his ass. What a game! Go Tigs!

Verlander. Wow.

Tigers scare me.

I am 4 for 4 on my NLCS/ALCS participants prediction though.

Top money teams make the LCS, other teams go home crying. That's baseball usually.

Least it aint the premier league.

Dodgers 2nd with $216 mil (Yankees were at 228mil)
Red Sox 4th with $159
Detroit 5th
St. Louis 12th with $116 (Damn their management is good)

Interestingly enough, the losers in the Division series:

Oakland 26th
Pittsburgh 27th
Tampa Bay 28th

With Atlanta coming in at 18th.

It wasn't like those Division series weren't competitive either.

Lets instead laugh at teams like the Phillies (159mil) Angels (142mil) and White Sox (124mil) just to pick a few.

See I'd laugh at those teams but for one thing. They all have rings since 2000. None of the other teams do.

In fact the only championship outliers from the high dollar teams are the Marlins and the Diamondbacks.

Well Arizona was 8th in payroll (81mil to Yankees 109) so I'm not sure they even qualify.

Good point. Toss them out too, then. It's the way the MLB works when it comes to rings. It's a pay up or shut up league, despite how many times people point to playoff contending outliers. They don't win, though.

The difference between 1st and 8th (28 million) was about the same as the difference between 8th and 19th that year. I don't really think the 2001 Diamondbacks were some crazy high money team.

Also the 2002 Angels were only 15th in payroll when they beat the Giants (who were 9th). The 2005 White Sox were 13th; they didn't shoot up the list until AFTER they won. 2008 Phillies were 12th. So, while we're still talking about teams that are in the upper half for the most part it's pretty clear that you don't have to be pouring money down the drain Yankees style either. Note that when you actually look into *who* was getting all the money on some of these teams, it was players who really didn't help much at all (example: 2001 Diamondbacks paid 9 million for 106 games of past-his-prime Matt Williams, 8 million for Jay Bell, 4.1 million for 133 wretched innings from Brian Anderson, etc.)

The A's were a few balls bouncing the wrong way from winning that series with Detroit, too.

But for some of those teams, while they won, they also had escalating contracts on the books. So the actual year value of the payroll perhaps didn't reflect the total value on the books.

Basically it's not so much that money lets you buy championships directly, it is that money lets you hide your mistakes.

No, spending the most will not get you a ring. There is no direct connection in that regard. There is a guarantee that spending below average won't though.

The imbecilic Mariners tried to get Lou Piniella back to manage next season. That is the their best idea. Seriously. :facepalm:

Best to try and win a Lombardi trophy. The other options suck.

Woo, notdodgers! Wooooo!


(that was a looooong game)

loldodgers

I guess I'm rooting for the Tigers. Yay, only non loathesome option!

lolredsox

Gave em a dirty Sanchez last night.

Well after that game and the Pats game I'm sure if there was anyone left who didn't hate Boston that has changed.

To which I say....suck it.  :grin:

(http://cdn2.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/DISAPPEARING-TORII-HUNTER.gif)

At least Hunter didn't hurt himself. Beltran bruised ribs (in his first WS game ever) catching that almost HR ball last night.

Wow the Cardinals didn't look good last night.

(http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/lester.gif)

 :awesome_for_real:

Can the resident Giants fans explain the Lincecum contract please?

Giants needs starting pitching and Tim has been a durable starter for them. He also pitched better in the 2nd half of the season as he adjusted to his decrease in velocity. He was also willing to take a short term deal. Worst case they make him a reliever again.

Seems expensive for that though. I mean right now the talk of the local team is how the Giants are fucking lower payroll teams because their starters are going to want $18M a year as a starting point.

Yes it does seem expensive. Rumor had it though that some deep pocket teams (i.e the Dodgers) were interested in him so Tim had some leverage.

It's a dumb deal. We could have had him for the cost of a qualifying offer (~14 million, 1 year with draft pick compensation if he leaves) almost certainly, and that would have kept money in the tank to go after Tanaka. I like Tim, and seeing him in another uniform would have hurt, but I have a hard time believing anyone would have given him that much money after the last 2 years. It's a big overpay, the only upside is it is a short deal and maaaaybe if we're lucky he can recapture 2011 Tim - Cy Young Tim is never coming back.

So, the husband sent me an email today:


Won't that be interesting. Not.

As if people actually would go to a Rams game?  :why_so_serious:

One time I was in St Louis on gameday and it was completely taken over by fans....Packers fans....

You know there's like an entire casino under the football stadium?

I still think the MNF ratings will clock Game 5 of the World Series. I can't stomach either team.

Seriously, I can't even do the "root for a team to lose" thing because I hate both teams, but not so much that one can get me to root for the other. They are equally lame.

As a Cubs fan, I have to root against the Cards.

As a fan of the human race, I have to root against Shane Victorino.

I like David Ross, that's about the only redeeming thing I think I have on this issue.

World Series Game 5 did a ~10 compared to 7.6 for MNF. (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/30/sports/baseball/on-monday-night-baseball-tops-football.html)

And on Sunday, Game 4 edged out the Packers v. Vikings on NBC (10.5 to 10.3). (http://thebiglead.com/2013/10/28/world-series-game-4-watched-by-16-million-tops-sunday-night-football-in-ratings/)

And last Thursday, was a big margin for World Series -- ~10 v. ~3 (not sure if due to NFL Network or just a crappy matchup).

That's better than I expected. They did have the advantage of two really bad teams involved in Sunday and Monday, but that still shows fans are watching.

The Thursday games will always be hamstrung by the fact most people don't get the NFL network. Hell, I'm a raging sports fan and I don't want to pay for that garbage that's totally irrelevant 350 days a year.

'twas close.

The 2013 Boston Red Sox, giving the rest of the country more reason to hate us....and I don't care..:D

Looks like McCutchen won the MVP for the NL. That would have been my choice too. The Pirates really stunned a lot of people this year.

McCutchen is a no-brainer, yeah. The AL one... well, they keep getting that one wrong.

Trout will get one eventually if he continues playing like he does. I honestly think they hold his youth against him.

EDIT: Also I don't think the AL people value speed at all like the NL voters do.

I don't think I would have had Cabrera higher than 3rd or 4th but I admit I probably think more of Josh Donaldson than most. Longoria had a great season too. Cabrera didn't get to 150 games this year, which was the big criticism of Trout last year...

Donaldson would be higher if he didn't play for that team everyone forgets in the AL.

I don't know if this is exactly the right place for this, but I'm told that the Braves are getting a new stadium.

And apparently a new logo.

How do you mean?

http://extramustard.si.com/2013/11/11/atlanta-braves-logo-change/

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115552/atlanta-braves-moving-stadiums-wont-change-name (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115552/atlanta-braves-moving-stadiums-wont-change-name)

I didn't think there was anything to the logo speculation.  "Brave" is not a racial slur, for one thing.

Also, name change was never going to happen.  What would the new city name be?  A suburb that no one outside North Georgia has heard of?

My primary concern is that we will end up with a Frank Gehry stadium (like the Cobb Energy Center, which most people know as the CDC from The Walking Dead) instead of the fantastic Turner Field.

I think the whole thing will be relatively simple. The Braves stay the Braves, the building is smaller with more surrounding elements, and it will cost half of whatever dumbass project the Falcons are trying to pull off.

Now the Falcons can just draw lines on Turner Field and I'll just never go to a game there.

I haven't looked at building details past finding out that it will be about three miles from my brother-in-law's house.  He's not happy.  I, on the other hand, will undoubtedly go see far more games and will never ever have to drive around abandoned neighborhoods trying to get to the real parking lots.

List of Concerns:
1. Architecture
2. Waffle House inside?

There will certainly be a Waffle House. They just added one this year to the stadium.

As for the architect, we don't know yet.

Believe me, I'm aware.  I walked by it and I was like "HAS THERE ALWAYS BEEN A WAFFLE HOUSE IN HERE THIS IS AWESOME BASEBALL AND WAFFLES AND I CAN GET FRIED CHICKEN TOO WHARRRGARRBLLL".

I suppose I'm revealing that I like playing baseball and going to games, and even watching games on TV sometimes.  I just don't care to get all nerd about it.

I go all nerd about it. Plus my seats are on the 4th row behind home plate, so I'm extremely interested in the new stadium layout.

I'm a behind-the-dugout guy.  Don't go very often, but that will change.

This is more appropriate for the MLB 2014 thread, but: Prince Fielder traded to Texas Rangers for Ian Kinsler.

I'm curious what the rest of MLB thinks of the move. As a tiger fan, I love the deal. Prince was great in the regular season, but went ice cold in the playoffs the last 2 years. Additionally, First base being open means Cabrera back at his natural position and the ability for the manager to adjust his lineup more. Prince Fielder never missed a game as a tiger, which was awesome.... but that meant Cabrera or Martinez or whoever never could take the occasional turn at first. Perhaps most importantly, his contract is off the books. That means you going from being cash strapped to being able to find a solution for left field and the bull pen via free agency, and now can make a serious play at locking up Scherzer (and Cabrera down the road) if you want too. Kinsler solves the 2nd base void left by Infante and allows Jackson to move down into the middle/bottom of the order where he probably fits better.

I think both teams do well on this one.

It's AL so I won't really care unless either team makes the world series, but it seems like a fair trade.

Also note, his contract isn't really off the books apparently - the reports I read said that Detroit is paying the difference in contracts to Texas, so they're not saving any money. So, it becomes pretty much a swap of Fielder for Kinsler plus not having to suffer through Cabrera's defense at 3rd.

Fielder is probably one of the top 5 worst contracts in baseball currently, so it would be really stupid if they had picked up the whole thing.

The thing I read was apparently partly wrong - they're sending SOME cash to Texas, but not the full difference in contract, so they do get a bunch more money to play with (probably to throw at Scherzer.)

Just enough to feed Fielder for a few weeks until they can find a ranch to board him.

I wonder what he's worth per pound a year.

I'm going to laugh if McCann and A-Rod end up both playing on the team at the same time. Watch out for the fun police, A-Rod!

How is McCann sticking up for his pitcher a bad thing exactly?

It'll be fine, Ingmar, I don't recall McCann screaming in the face of his teammates when they admire their home runs for too long.

Woah woah woah. Let's be fair, Brian McCann only screamed at Carlos Gonzalez because he was actively yelling at Paul Maholm as he rounded the bases. It was wildly out of line.

That isn't the only time he's done that, although I admit that is probably the funniest time because of the whole NO I'M NOT GONNA LET YOU CROSS HOME PLATE thing. I don't even really care that he's an old man yelling at clouds from time to time (in fact, I encourage it, because then I get to hear about it later and be amused by it). But like it or not, the Braves were delicate about their fee-fees enough this season that I heard about it, and I just don't pay that much attention to non-Giants whatnot.

If it makes you feel better, I also heard about how the Diamondbacks and Cardinals are sensitive too. So it's not like they're the only fun police around!

I knew the Mariners were bad, I had no idea they were this stupid.

Past history should tell you that they are indeed, that fucking stupid.

10-years, $240 million for Robinson Cano? 27 homers in the band box that is New Yankee Stadium and you think he'll hit more homers in that cavernous fucking homer tomb? Did Carlos Beltran teach them nothing?

I need other teams to be stupid for the Orioles to even have a damn chance this season. Glad to see both Cano and Granderson out of the AL East while the Orioles furiously dump salary because I guess Angelos wants a new building or something.

They did move the fences in, but yeah. The 10 years is the part that is really dumb, the per-year is actually a little below what I expected, I figured he'd get 25.

The total dollar amount and the per year is, IMO, as stupid as the length of the contract. I'm not sure what teams are thinking with these mega decade deals. When the richest team in baseball is bemoaning their own lengthy megadeal (A-Rod's idiotic contract), and the Tigers traded away their mega deal man, you'd think other teams might look at that and decide to just not pay it. It's not like even the Yankees were willing to go that high or that long for him. And he's never hit more than 33 homers in a season.

And OMG, I just looked at his stats - he's 31 years old. WHAT... THE... FUCK? You have to figure no matter how good his conditioning or pharmaceutical regime, he's got at best 5 good years left. Seven years if he's really lucky. Even if you assume he adjusts his hitting to make up for the big park in Seattle, you can't think he's going to be $24 million's worth of runs every year for the length of that contract? Even rich teams like the Cubs were regretting a seven-year deal they signed for Soriano back at the height of his game.

Stupid must grow on trees in the MLB. I think that's more evidence that teams need a salary cap, to save themselves from their own idiocy.

Well, the new TV deal has every team getting 25 million more a year or whatever, so I guess they figured it was easiest to just spend it on one guy.  :why_so_serious:

Wow.  Roy Halladay is retiring.  I figured he had a few more years left in him.  Guess his shoulder isn't doing so hot.

Winter meetings coming up. Any guesses on big deals?

Also Bobby Cox is going into the Hall of Fame. Good for him.

That seems to be the Mariners MO for losing the last decade or so.  :why_so_serious:

Also, Bobby Cox TOTALLY deserves the Hall of Fame. For someone to not only have turned the Braves of the late '80's into a winner, but then to make them perennial winners for almost two decades - just masterful stuff.

Yeah Cox in the HOF is a no brainer, really. Mazzone should get in too, but I don't think they make much space for coaches.

It's potentially even better.

http://deadspin.com/the-mariners-may-have-bid-against-themselves-for-robins-1479755692

By mid-day Friday, Seattle had heard that some team bid nine years and $225 million for Robinson Cano, so the Mariners upped their bid to $240 million and 10 years before apparently realizing the initial bid had come from themselves, too.

HOW DO THESE GM'S STAY EMPLOYED????

I mean fuck, I could pull together the people in this very thread and make more competent contract decisions.

I dunno.  I always thought Bobby Cox was a little overrated. 

Somebody talk Wayabvpar off the ledge.  :grin:

This story (http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022420240_mariners08xml.html) sheds light on what most non-retarded Mariners fans already know. What a fucking cesspool of festering, feckless, fuckheaded cunts. The team is doomed until Lincoln is gone. I should have shivved him when I had a chance (he was in line in front of me at the Nintendo cafeteria about a million years ago when we both worked there). He was only a corporate lawyer then, but I should have known!

That sounds like a complete clusterfuck, but it certainly can explain what a trainwreck on the field that team has been. It would also explain why they'd put out yet another shitty contract on a free agent home run hitter, though I still hesitate to call Cano a home run hitter.

He is one of the top 5 best hitters in the game. How he ages will determine how onerous the contract is seen, but as a 5-6 WAR player now, 24M/year is right in the range for average cost per win (about 6M per win last I checked). If he ages gracefully and the price per win goes up (2nd is a guarantee, the first not nearly), the contract could be a decent value all the way through.

Best scenario now is to add a couple of pieces through FA and/or trade,  get rid of Armstrong (he is retiring next month, and I am holding out hope for a murder/suicide with Lincoln), and hope like hell the team has a decent season. I don't think the current ownership will sell until the regional sports channel money rolls in for a bit, but I think they could sell high once it does. Then we just need an owner who A) wants to win rather than run a profit every year B) understands baseball and how to assemble a competent front office, and C) is smart enough to let his people do their fucking jobs instead of meddling all the goddamned time.

I MAY take my family to one game this season if I they show interest. My daughter will be just old enough to grok that the guys out there are the guys on TV, and my son loves to go (since they have a fun playground and lots of goodies to eat...he couldn't care less about sports  :heartbreak: ). I am loathe to give these assholes any more of my money though.

I don't think I'd have him in my top 5 in a raw hitting sense. He might be in my top 5 overall value-wise but defense, positional scarcity, and durability factor into that.

It's a terrible deal no matter how you slice it. There are 6 years minimum where he's going to be completely overpaid and they will be begging to get out.

And how do you know that? If he is still a 3-4 WAR player until he is 40, the deal will be fine. If he falls off a cliff tomorrow, it will be a disaster. There is no way to know. At his current value, the contract is for market value, or maybe a hair under if he is still +6 WAR. He will probably hit fewer homers and more doubles in Seattle, but his stats were not as inflated by Yankee Stadium as you might guess. Saw an article the other day were he was something like 137th best as a home park hitter, and 5th as a road hitter.

Personally I wouldn't have signed him to anything past 6 years, but in order to get him to come to baseball Siberia they had to overextend to 10. I am fine with that. I am just glad it wasn't Prince Fielder or Jason Hamilton who decided to come instead.



Yes, you are probably right. I should have said Top 5 position players, not just hitters.

Because the roid era is over. Hitters past age 35 on average are garbage?

"On average" doesn't mean as much when you talk about superstar-level players. I think more than half of the deal will be OK, in part because I think the market value of players has taken a big jump up and we haven't caught up to it in our thinking.

It still doesn't make financial sense to cut these deals, especially since this isn't the NFL.

Who honestly hasn't ended up regretting one of these mega contracts? I'm asking, because the examples of Arod, Zito, Howard, Pujols, Uggla, and others jump to mind.

Bonds initial deal with the Giants was the biggest in history at the time IIRC, and that certainly worked out. Miguel Cabrera has I think 2 more years left on a 8 year, 150 million+ deal that has been a good value.

How old was Miggy when he signed his deal though? Cabrera is just NOW 30, while Cano is 31. Giving Cabrera an 8-year deal makes sense because at the age he was when the deal was signed, he was already an All-Star and you could reasonably expect you'd get 7-8 good years out of him (barring injuries that you can't account for like collisions or hamstrings or such). Signing a guy at age 31 to a decade-long contract is just NUTS. You KNOW a player after the age of 30 is going to miss time or need time to rest. By the time the contract is over, you'll be lucky if the guy is still able to start, much less if he's still playing. It's one of the reasons the Yankees A-Rod deal was so bad this last time - he had already started to decline in production and there's no way he plays out all of that contract. If he won't sign a 5-year deal, MOVE ON - there are other players you can get for less money that might not be quite as big a splash, but will at least be productive.

Yeah I think that's a key factor. Any deal that give you more than 2 years after a guy hits 35 seems like a downer to me. I don't have the numbers on it, but my gut says it's not favorable.

I can certainly see it for guys that you consider "face of the franchise" types. The Derek Jeter's, Barry Bonds (FWIW), Pujols (if St. Louis had come through with money), etc. But a guy going to a new team at the age of 31? Not a chance.

Yeah I mean the Braves paid Chipper Jones until he was 40. Did they get value out of it? I'd say yes, but they knew going in that he was going to be more of a leader from a clubhouse stance than a production guy. He had one AMAZING year at 36, and the rest was basically good. He was never a huge detriment. But his value was in getting guys on the same page in the clubhouse and coaching up the young guys at the plate.

Unless you develop young players and then sign then to extensions before they hit the market, you will have to pay top dollar for top talent. I am just relieved that the one who signed was the one with skill set that will age the best. Hamilton last year and Fielder the year before scared the shit out of me. Cano can transition to a DH/1B role when the time is right and still provide some value (although diminished, since a decent chunk of his value is the offensive production from a non-traditional offensive position).

Mostly I am just glad I don't have to watch abortions like Michael Morse and Raul Ibanez run after balls that a Pony Leaguer would have run down with ease. Although it sounds like they expect Corey Hart and Logan Morrison to play OF. Sigh. This FO loves power and hates defense, so they overpay for the former when they could be getting deals on the latter. No matter- everyone is getting fired in September anyway.

I have to watch Morse instead.  :oh_i_see:

Hopefully Bochy handles him like he did Burrell.

At least he might be healthy enough to hit for you. He was bashed up most of the year and kept getting stuck back in the lineup before he was fully healed because Mariners. He will keep the ballpark nice and breezy with his swings, and occasionally make contact and knock a ball into the bay. He is also proficient at picking up batted balls after they roll to a stop and getting them back in to the infield. Eventually.

One of my Twitter Followers put this together for Dan Uggla after my recent blog post idea.

http://www.mobypicture.com/user/Bravesmeme/view/16400362

You so mean.

Glavine and Maddux made it so I'm happy.

Biggio didn't make it, but I don't really care. He'll get in next year.

The big hurt made it too? nice.

I feel old as shit now since I grew up watching (and idolizing) Maddux.

And in other news...
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/08/the-indians-are-changing-their-primary-logo-from-chief-wahoo-to-the-block-c/related/