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Topic: Bitch Thread for Warlords of Draenor (Read 494882 times)
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Merusk
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Posts: 27449
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Lmao; just make it so each class is like a MOBA character and only has enough abilities to map to like 4-5 keys and get it the fuck over with.
This is EXACTLY what I thought and pretty clearly the reasoning behind a lot of the changes. "We want WoW to be more ARPG/ MOBA and less MMO. We think you'll all be pleased." Ha. Hunter changes are depressing only because of the removal of game-long abilities like Aspect of the Hawk. Of all the classes, they and Shamen were the two that had the most ability bloat and player bases begging for greater differentation. Fuck, Hunters have been begging for fewer buttons since Burning Crusade at least. The proposed changes don't seem too terrible on the face. Which probably means they'll be goddamn awful. All the crowd control removal is just hilarious. They will never get this right, ever. Some dev must have been raging at getting CCd in arenas for them to be removing it almost entirely. L2P, Noob.
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« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 10:13:13 AM by Merusk »
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Soulflame
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Posts: 6487
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I am pleased. It confirms my decision to avoid the game.
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Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
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One day they'll finally put in two different rulesets for pvp and pve, and nobody will care because the subs will already be long gone.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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luckton
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Posts: 5947
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Ironwood
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Posts: 28240
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Undead breathing a typo. Lol.
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"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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Hutch
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Posts: 1893
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Hunter pets no longer have crowd-control abilities.
rrrrRRRRRRRR They had it just right. You could finally collect more hunter pets, really, than you would ever use. You could switch your pets between tenacity/cunning/ferocity at will. I could, if I so chose, have an awesome spider pet who could tank for me, and also trap my (PvE) enemies with his web. Less choices, less fun. I don't want to play a MOBA, and I've never really been such a big fan of WoW's PvP game, either. This sucks.
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Plant yourself like a tree Haven't you noticed? We've been sharing our culture with you all morning. The sun will shine on us again, brother
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Simond
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Posts: 6742
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The funniest thing in the last page or so is Paelos & Rendakor both saying the changes suck, but for completely opposite reasons.
Me? I'm waiting until I actually play it before I decide (I'm fully expecting a bunch of the perks to get nerfed), but I'd have to agree that the healing changes do look regressive and dumb as hell at first glance.
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Rendakor
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Posts: 10131
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I'm unlikely to play it unless they send beta invites to people without active WoW subs, so judging it based on the notes is all I've got. None of the upcoming MMOs really excite me so I was kinda hoping WoW would get it's shit together now that Blizzard is focusing on it again instead of Titan. That, uh, hasn't happened.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Paelos
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Posts: 27075
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I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes.
None of this changes the fact that it's all window dressing on very little actual content.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Simond
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Posts: 6742
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very little actual content.
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Paelos
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Should I just start with the fact there's no new races or classes, and they are rehashing TBC? Or do you want more for your trolling efforts?
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Simond
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Posts: 6742
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And this is where I point out they're redoing every race except three(/one) and that the grand total of zones which are going to be even vaguely similar to TBC comes to maybe two (and I suspect Taladar/Terrokar is going to be quite different anyway).
I mean, you do know that two of the TBC zones straight up don't exist in WoD, right? And most of the ones that do are wildly different. I mean, unless you are some sort of congenital cretin you cannot possibly look at 'tropical, carnivorous rainforest' and think 'Yep, that's the Hellfire Peninsula I remember".
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Paelos
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Posts: 27075
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They redid everything in Cataclysm too. How'd that turn out again? Oh right, it was panned and they lost the most subs ever. Or like how they've redone all the raids before, or the dungeons, or various other redos.
I don't know how I can point out that redoing content for the umpteenth time by Blizzard counts as new. They do not get credit for updating models 8 years after the fact. But no, even more than that we're reusing the same Big Bad, and we're doing it in another semi-close version of a place you may have seen. Oh the joy! What adventures we'll have in this fucked up timeline.
You're the resident fanboi for this nonsense, so keep shining on there, but when even Rokal is questioning the content of this xpac, you look ridiculous. MOP was at the very least original. This isn't.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Rendakor
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Posts: 10131
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New race skins don't count as content.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Simond
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Posts: 6742
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They redid everything in Cataclysm too. So you do think "tropical rainforest" = "hellfire-blasted rubble"?
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Sjofn
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Truckasaurus Hands
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Whether you agree with Paelos or not on the "retread" thing (and for the record, I don't think it's a retread of TBC ... the attraction of the new areas is going to be "this is what orcplanet looked like before everything got totally ruined, neat" not "Outland: AGAIN!"), that is how it comes across to a lot of people, and that's the problem. You can stamp your foot that it'll look different all you want, but for people who wandered off and were glancing over this expansion thinking about maybe coming back, the first impression is going to be "I already WENT to Outland. And I thought they killed Garrosh already. No new races or classes? They want me to pay how much for this?!"
And for people like me, it's also "fuck I am so fucking sick of orcorcorcorcorcorcs." Orcs are the new trolls.
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God Save the Horn Players
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Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
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Sjofn has the right of it. Even if it turns out totally different, it comes off like they're redoing stuff because the idea itself is ridiculous.
Why not create a new island based expansion with Pirates and boats? It would draw in people who like WoW and pirates. But no, we get this instead.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Lakov_Sanite
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Posts: 7590
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The entire idea for the expansion is creatively bankrupt. Any efforts created toward that goal are already tainted by proxy.
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~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
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Ingmar
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Posts: 19280
Auto Assault Affectionado
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Time travel is the ultimate in "we're out of ideas".
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The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT. Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
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Rokal
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Posts: 1652
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I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes. It's entirely possible that, according to metrics that aren't "do tanks want to run LFR when flex offers a similar & superior experience?", the active mitigation model was well-liked by the majority of the playerbase.
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Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8978
~Living the Dream~
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There's a lot of interesting places they could've taken the story but a weirdo alternate timeline Draenor isn't that interesting and even if they redeem and/or kill off Garrosh early he was a really uninteresting character who was unlikable in the bad way.
You could've done a really crazy Emerald Dream expansion with a giant crazy plant worlds, or a pirate/high seas themed expansion in whatever south of the maelstrom, or get with the crazy spelljammer shit beyond even TBC and have us fighting the Titans in space on a mechanical planet, or just start wrapping up the fucking burning legion and have us go kill them off in Argus or where-ever
but nah, let's just do the time warp so we can easily handwave away everything in the end and declare the expansion a wash story wise outside of killing Valen (btw he dies I guess in WoD because lol Alliance can't have a near god for a faction leader) while trying to say "hey folks remember TBC? Huh? Do ya? Yeah this is like that place again but before it got all fucked up. Hey hardcore people who never quit here's some knob slobbering we're 100% sure won't drive away our far more valuable customers this time. Don't worry, we got this."
If your new expansions keep typically consisting of ripping out systems you've introduced in the more recent expansions before it you are complete fuckups.
edit: also the Garrison thing is completely lol-worthy because it's another grindy daily thing that'll be used for this expansion and then never ever ever touched again afterwards as people quickly level past it. People at least see questing content, dungeons, and raids from old expansions either while leveling or retro-running for transmogs or to fuck around on alts/etc. The time they spent on the 5-mans, questing, and raids in MoP will be justified in the future. The tillers won't be.
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« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 09:01:48 PM by Fabricated »
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"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
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Rendakor
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Posts: 10131
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Yea thematically this expansion makes no sense. We've been waiting for Emerald Dream since WotLK, and figured with the work they did in Cata they'd easily have the tech to phase the whole world into the Dream. Instead we got Pandas (which felt about as random as a pirate expansion would feel to me), and now this. And while Simond has a point that the zones aren't going to look much like their TBC counterparts, that's actually kinda worse. They get all of the bad press of "reusing content lulz" without saving any development time by actually reusing content.
Garrosh is such a shit character, who never should have been anything more than a bit of backstory in TBC as "Grom's pussy kid". Instead, he's been a major focus of 3 expansions now: becoming Warchief (and killing the cool Tauren guy) in Cata, endboss of MoP and endboss again maybe or something whatever in WoD. It's the whole Thrall thing but like, a dickhead instead of Jesus Sue.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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luckton
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Posts: 5947
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Data mining of the Alpha client has begun. MMO-Champ and Wowhead have articles up now.
The new glyphs are neat, and the new enchantments + stat lines confirm a lot of the new special stats that are coming down the pike (Lifesteal, Readiness, Multistrike, Avoidence, etc.)
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Simond
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6742
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Shadowmoon Valley
The Tainted Woods Akama's Scar The Iron March Grommar Gar'mak Quarry [PH] Alliance Bastion [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 1 [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 2 [PH] Alliance Bastion Lvl 3 The Burial Fields Shaz'gul Light's Fall Teluuna Observatory Starfall Outpost Gul'var Watcher's Den Secluded Glade [PH] - SMV - Alliance Garrison West Camp [UNUSED]Hidey-Hole Gloomshade Grove The Shadow Rise Indentation Landing Twilight Glade Den of Despair Terrace of the Stars Shadowmoon Overlook Mount Teluuna Vindicator Ledge Darktide Roost Plains of Serenity Moonflower Valley Embaari Village Karabor Path of the Light Gardens of Eternity Tranquil Court Amphitheater of Echoes Karabor Harbor Palemoon Village Pilgrim's Sojourn Bloodthorn Cave The Verdant Mire Ancestor's Grotto Waning Crescent Moonwillow Peak Bloodthorn Hill The Nightmarsh Dyvari Overgrowth Glade of Shadows Shadowmoon Mine
Gorgrond
Explosion Town [NOT TEMP NAME] Bastion Rise Laughing Skull Tailthrasher Basin Skullchief's Stand Prototype Proving Grounds Blackrock Station The Forgotten Caves Blackrock Pipeworks Dry Riverbed Belcher Cauldron Draenataur Cavern Stonemaul Slave Camp Stonemaul Slave Mine Spinebloom Spires Gorgrond Garrison Area Smokebelcher Depot Blackrock Foundry Lake Oasis Gronn Cave Highland Pass Elemental Hollow Blackrock Shipyard Tankworks Shrubby Plateau Salt Flats Blackrock Foundry Base Gorgrond Pass The Iron Front The Screaming Geyser Emberfall Lake Ulon Oasis The Binding Trench Spineling Crevice The Sulfic Refuge Canyon Pass Throne of Stonemaul The Broken Crater Thaelin's Retreat Blook's Overlook
Spires of Arak
Lower Quarter Grand Spire The Overlook [PH] Spires Coast Spires Garrison [PH] Spires Dry Region [PH] SpiresThorny Region Lower Skettis Dreadtalon Peak Ravenskar Veil Terokk Living Explosion [PH]
Tanaan Jungle
No subzones
Nagrand
Sabermaw Warsong Lookout Gol'gor Wor'var Prowler Ridge Yrel's Watch Riverside Post The Stones of Prophecy Lok-rath Nagrand Corral Kil'sorrow Fortress Grommashar Gates of Grommashar Ironfist Harbor Clowder Rise Ancestral Grounds Ring of Trials Telaar Sabermaw Den Telaari Station
Faralohn
Brawnbelly Barracks Digger Flats The Pits Blightstone Quarry The Iron Tower [PH] Test Zone [PH] Test Zone 2
Grommar
The Shadow Tower Shadowmoon Grotto Grommar Hold Grommar Docks
Bloodmaul Slag Mines
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[PH] Heroes Through Time
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Draenor Auchindoun
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Shadowmoon Burial Grounds
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Talador
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Blasted Lands
Shattered Beachhead Shattered Landing The Shattered Front Okril'lon Hold The Forge Grounds Dreadmaul Rise
[PH] Ashran - World PvP Zone
Ashran - Center Lane [PH] Ashran - The Arena
Blackrock Shipyard
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Bonetown Scenario
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Blackrock Train Depot
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Spires of Arak
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Highmaul Raid
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Tanaan Jungle
The Dark Portal Heartblood Tangle The Bleeding Altar Kargathar Proving Grounds Heartblood Umbral Halls Blackrock Quarry The Path of Glory Iron Bastion
Blackrock Foundry
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[PH] Ashran [TRANSITION ZONE]
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Remains of Xandros
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Defense of Karabor
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Frostfire Ridge
Frostwind Dunes Throm'var Daggermaw Ravine The Savage Crag Icescar Boneyard Lashwind Cleft The Cracking Plains Grombolash The Boneslag Stonefang Outpost Icewind Drifts Grom'gar The First Anvil Ascent of Frostfire Refuse Pit The Ice Forge The Forge Gates Giant's Fall Grimfrost Hill Turgall's Den Sootstained Mines Sootstained Mining Camp Grulloc's Lair Bladespire Fortress Circle of Blood Hall of the Great Hunt Wor'gol Farseer's Rock Bladespire Throne Reeg'ak's Nest Melted Burrow Gormaul Watch Eastwatch Mor'dul Tower Pit of the Devourer Frostboar Drifts Butcher's Rise Gronnstalkers' Cache Pool of Visions Bladespire Ravine Stonefang Ridge Thunder Pass Windswept Lowland Bloodmaul Territory Bloodmaul Slag Mines Iron Siegeworks Bones of Agurak Agurak's Fall Frostwall Snowfall Alcove Coldsnap Bluffs Frost Den Frostbite Hollow Sleeper's Lair Bloodmaul Stronghold Thunder Pass Ruins of Ata'gar The Gloomspire Iceblister Den Darkspear's Edge Forbidden Glacier Blade's Edge Mountain Southwind Cliffs The Bleeding Mountain The Burning Glacier Wolf's Stand Iron Waystation Lowland Cave
Talador
Gul'rok Shattrath Metropolitan Area Court of Souls Liadrin's Watch Deathweb Hollow Telmor Aruuna Anchorite's Sojourn Veil Shadar Duskfall Island The Pilgrim's Road Terokkar Refuge Sharptusk Lake Kuuros Farm [PH] Talador Beach [PH] Bluff Base Tuurem [PH] Logging Camp Aruuna Crystal Mine Light's Rest Tomb of Souls Shattrath Jorune Mine Ango'rosh Ruins Seat of Depravity Sunsworn Camp Retribution Point The Burning Front Exarch's Refuge Garden of K'ure Aruuna Desolation Tomb of Lights Totally the same zones as TBC with nothing new.
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947
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"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."
"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
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Malakili
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Posts: 10596
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I agree with Sjofn and Paelos. The main problem is that for someone like me who skipped MoP (my first missed expansion for WoW, even after not really playing it "seriously" since TBC) this expansion doesn't really have that "come see all this cool new stuff we've been doing since you were gone." Hell, I've been known to occasionally cave on WoW and resub on a whim over the years, and a new expansion could tip me towards it still (even if I'd have to go back and pick up MoP also) if they got it right.
But in the end all this expansion announcement has done since the beginning is confirm for me that there isn't anything interesting to see here. Whether or not that's a perfect analysis of the situation, with Diablo 3 being "fixed", Hex coming, and more games than time to begin with I need to at least be excited for something to give it a look at this point.
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Tannhauser
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Posts: 4436
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At least with MoP there were folks out there clamoring for pandas. I didn't hear anyone go "Hey, remember that lame place the orcs come from? I wish we could go back there with some sort of handwavey bullshit."
It just feels to me like they are out of ideas and are going in circles.
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Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
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I was hoping they would move away from the tanking model that's basically run off anybody who tanked in the past. Looks unlikely, since they are doubling down on the stat changes. It's entirely possible that, according to metrics that aren't "do tanks want to run LFR when flex offers a similar & superior experience?", the active mitigation model was well-liked by the majority of the playerbase. Ok bear with me a bit here, because you've become more realistic about this kind of stuff over the last couple years. It doesn't matter that the current people playing tanks like something, if the overall population of tanks including people who used to tank stopped doing it. Of course the people still playing tanks like it or at least tolerate it. You can't use that as a standard. The Standard should be where the majority of your playerbase encounters your content, and that's LFR. If tanks don't want to even bother with LFR, or if tanks as a population have fallen off so that LFR can't function? That's the biggest problem of the game, and the biggest problem to retention. If Flex is the answer, and I think it could be, then you have to remove LFR and make it the standard. If you're keeping LFR, you can't make the more demanding jobs like healing and tanking even worse to play mechanically.
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Simond
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Posts: 6742
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The main problem is that for someone like me who skipped MoP I'd say the main problem there is that you skipped a very good expansion.
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10131
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Nowhere in his post does it say he skipped WotLK.
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"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
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Mithas
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Posts: 942
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Nowhere in his post does it say he skipped WotLK.
MoP all in all was a pretty good expansion. It gets a lot of grief (lol pandas), but it contains the single best leveling experience so far in WoW. It just really sucks to do twice. They also did have to patch in the fun, but that seems par for the course now.
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Paelos
Contributor
Posts: 27075
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There's nothing inherently bad about MoP other than the fact they started it poorly as they do all the xpacs. The daily grind with raid point items hidden behind factions that were unlocked by other factions? That was one of their more bone-headed decisions. I would hope they wouldn't make that mistake again in WoD, but they probably will. Cycle continues.
That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great, or wasn't implemented at the back end of Cataclysm as scramble to get back subs. The absolute best thing I think MoP gave the populace was pet battles, which opened up an entirely new addictive element to the game. Flex raiding on the back end is also a great idea.
Overall Mists was slower to be adopted, and 2013 saw 1.9 sub losses in the first two quarters. It was okay, but it wasn't very good by any stretch.
EDIT: Personally, I played for about 3-4 months and then quit. And I got the xpac for basically free by D3 AH sales at the time. My experience was that my guild and friends were already gone by month 3. I came back at the back end of 2013, and it was better, but Timeless Isle got old when I kitted out my character and LFR lost it's luster.
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 07:36:07 AM by Paelos »
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CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
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Simond
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Posts: 6742
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That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great, The content?
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"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
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Selby
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Posts: 2963
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That being said, there was very little that MoP brought that was great, The content? After you hit 90, there was pretty much nothing interesting to do unless you had a guild or group of people to play with. Killed my desire to play pretty quickly.
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