Neverwinter Nights; Is it worth it?

[Strazos]

Got another email from BioWare today, pimping some new module they have for sale. I had always wanted to get into NWN....but I quit, having never finished the original campaign, and no friends to play with.

I see there are a lot of good-looking modules out now, and the Platinum DVD edition is at a good price now.

Just wondering if this is worth reinstalling.

[schild]

Not really, no.

[Strazos]

 

[Cheddar]

Not really, no.

I disagree.  If you have not finished the original game then I would try it out again.  The first expansion was meh, but I loved the second one.  Also I have heard good things about the player made content, but never bothered with it.




please do not ban me Schild I did not mean to commit insubordination sir.

[Strazos]

Anyone played the modules that came out for NWN, sans expansions? It might be worth reinstalling to play some of the modules that are available for the original version...but I'd rather not waste my time.

[schild]

I think that was my big problem with NWN. The writing wasn't near as good as the BIS/Bioware collaborative stuff, and the game just felt like a waste of time. Going through the motions and all that.

[Cheddar]

I hate these new avatars for some reason.  They freak me out.  I will be back after 3 days, I am sure they will change by then.

[schild]

If it makes you feel better, mine has nothing to do with everyone elses old asian men. I don't know what's going on there.

[Rasix]

I had a lot of fun with NWN Gold + Horde of the Underdark.  Shadows of Undrentide wasn't that bad but HOU was really a lot of fun.  Showed off a lot of what can be done with the engine and scripting (made me really want to get into module build, but I lack initiative to learn it all) and best of all it gave you another henchman.  A team of two is just way too restrictive but with 3 it opens up quite a bit.  Plus, you get Deakin, which is just another memorable Bioware character. Much  for the little kobold.

Plus, I'm a sucker for lvl 10+ AD&D.  I just think it's loads of fun with what you can fight and the versatility that's available to you.

I didn't play the orginal campaign.  I played it a while ago (ARRRRRRRR!) and it wasn't very engaging.  Seemed rather poorly written and plot was a tad hackneyed.  Plus, two player lowbie AD&D isn't very eye popping.

[Fabricated]

Horde of the Underdark is pretty cool since it goes into epic territory and has all the neat bell and whistles. The first expansion and the original game pretty much suck.

The user made modules however can be really fucking good. I recommend "Honour Amoung Thieves" if you want to see how open ended of a game you can make. "In the company of thieves" is another thief oriented module that's much more linear, but has pretty good writing and comedy.

And then there's the Eternum series, which is well, pretty fucking amazing. Custom music and everything. Elegia Eternum and Excrucio Eternum rank amoung the best DnD based games I've ever played. Right up there with Baldur's Gate 1/2.

[Trippy]

Horde of the Underdark is pretty cool since it goes into epic territory and has all the neat bell and whistles. The first expansion and the original game pretty much suck.

Yeah but the first expansion (Shadows of Undrentide) has Deekin in it as well. I agree that the original campaign sucked, I never finished it either.

[Paelos]

The original game sucked in ways that made me wonder if they threw darts at a dictionary to form a storyline.

[Kail]

I had a ton of fun with the game in multiplayer.  The game, especially the original campaign, is pretty horrible by yourself, because A) you only get one sidekick, and B) he's infuriatingly retarded (especially the mages and clerics).  With a multiplayer group, though, even a group of two, you can start to get that party dynamic going, and it's a lot of fun, in my opinion.  Second module is a bit better, and the third one is a bit better than that (though you have to be around level fifteen to start it, and the option to fast level your character always feels like cheating to me, so I generally suffer through the first two anyway). 

In terms of modules, I haven't found anything that's been impressive, but I haven't played the premium ones, either.  Except, there was one called... ugh, I forget... Witch's Wake, I think?  Witch something, anyway, that I played (probably a demo of, since I'm pretty sure I didn't pay for it), which I thought was pretty awful.  Mountains of very dry dialogue, very slow.  Not something I'd play for free.  Personally, I'd not put too much faith in these premium modules saving the day.  They're all (except one) written by "BioWare writers and designers," in whom I have increasingly little faith.

[Strazos]

I take it you didn't play Jade Empire?

[Ironwood]

Taking a character through SoU and HotU from lvl 1 to epic is a truly great journey that I reccomend to any die hard gamer.  I thought the two expansions were both really well done and proved what can be done with the toolset.  It almost made me forget the COMPLETE stinky-plop that was the original game.  Oh, my, God, was that bad.

Further, a couple of the fan made ones were good for playing with the wife/friends.  Also, Witches Wake was really nicely done.

However :

NWN is fatally, fatally flawed as a D&D product.  It just flat out doesn't work.  I could go into why, but I'm not going to.  We've done this one to death so many times.

If only someone would use the ToEE engine for, you know, a GOOD module.

[schild]

Taking a character through SoU and HotU from lvl 1 to epic is a truly great journey that I reccomend to any die hard gamer.  I thought the two expansions were both really well done and proved what can be done with the toolset.  It almost made me forget the COMPLETE stinky-plop that was the original game.  Oh, my, God, was that bad.

Wouldn't playing Planescape Torment or Icewind Dale 1+2 be more fulfilling? Really. I mean NWN is the weakest of the Bioware products imho, and I was lined up on day one to get it. Talk about being ticked off when I started playing. It felt bad from "new game."

[Tebonas]

Yes, Playing Torment and Icewind Dale 1 and 2 are more fullfilling. But after you have done that a dozen times,you need something different. Some NWN modules are really worth installing the game. The expansions are far superior to the original plot (how many times do they want to play the fallen paladin shtick exactly), and so are fan-made modules.

[schild]

Icewind Dale and Torment were simply examples, there are loads of games that are worth going back to that are far more exciting than NWN. NWN was hampered by its boring gameplay - which was thankfully absent from Jade Empire (though that wasn't exactly a shining beacon of twitch combat). Essentially - sure, there's some neat NWN stuff, but you need to be really goddamn bored before you take that route to kill time. Go buy Bad Mojo Redux.

[stray]

I've bought NWN a total of 3 times (yeah, 3) and given it away just as much (same goes for Morrowind, but that's another story). The first time I knew it was shitty, and tossed it. Then the hype suckered me in again...Then I tossed it. Then they made a shiny gold package with the expansions, and I thought "Hmm..Maybe I should give it another chance."

Tossed it.

[edit] With all of this talk going on about this and that module, I've gotta admit: It all sounds very tempting...

But damnit, you're not fooling me this time. 

[Soln]

NWN was pretty disappointing, I'm a Bioware fan.  I don't remember if I finished it (probably).  I could never, ever get over the shitty camera angle and the lack of 1stperson view option.  WTF?

[Dren]

I thought the game out of the box was fine, but not great.  I really liked the mod tools myself.  Of course, when you've spent 10+ hours on a module and sit back to take a rest and figure out you haven't made more than 30 minutes of content you get the feeling of a stone in your stomach.  Then you think of the fame and fortune you'll have when you get maybe 15 hours of content in by spending 100+ hours on it...  Oh, well there isn't any of that other than having people review your module and tell you either how great you are or how craptastic you are.

/uninstall

P.S.  If somebody offered me cash/hour to make modules, I'd be a happy nerd.  I'm not nerd enough to do it "just for the love."

[Sky]

I hated NWN, but I only tried the stuff that came with it. I actually bought the wordbuilder guide and worked on a module for a few weeks. It's such a limited and crappy editor that I may as well not even have bothered. It should say on the package you need 3DSMax experience (or whatever). Playing with set pieces is not playing with legos.

There are a slew of better games to play, though they aren't customizable player-driven experiences. I've found 'player-driven' usually equates to 'shitty'. If someone told me there was a diamond ring in an olympic-sized pool of shit, I'd not go looking for it. Same goes for NWN player-made content.

[Calantus]

I actually played through and enjoyed the original campaign in NWN. I also listened to techno and dance music the whole time and played it like a hyped up diablo clone, but yeah...

[Fargull]

I never played the one that came with it.  I just built modules and a group of friends played through them.  To be honest, it was damn fun, not quite Diablo fun, but close.

[Soln]

sorry, to clarify, because Im a Bioware fanboya... the modelling editor was neat, but for me there was too much scripting and I dont want to spend my free time scripting something that I remember was buggy and the documentation was weak (had to buy a Prima guide I remember).  Anyways, it was the actual RPG included in as "NWN" I think I remember -- there was more than just the editor and tiles right?  It included some small campaign?  I really hated the semi-fly by camera angle in it I couldnt adjust (always overhead, looking into corridors through ceilings, exposing other rooms ahead, etc.).   Ya ya whine, more I know. 

[Xilren's Twin]

While I realize we've had this discussion before  :-D  I still have a warm spot in my heart for NWN and still play it occasionally.  It is the closest thing to the middle of the road between a true Single player deep CRPG and a MMORPG thats out there today.

Yes, the real timey feel of combat does not flow like people think a D&D game should.
Yes, adding true customizable content (like a new monster model) is practically not doable for the average game.
Yes, you are stuck with the D&D corer ruleset in the engine.

Still, even with those limits, there is a HELL of a lot you can do with the game.

I have played some great player made modules (insert caveat of 90% or more being utter crap here), had some good multipler games, even tried some of the persistant worlds out there, tried making my own modules of course but that's very time consuming; never hosted a server, but ALL of it is worth a look.

IMHO simply b/c there really is so MUCH to try give it a go, TRY it.  Getting NWN and playing through the included campagins, and stopping there, is really missing the boat.  If you have the cash, for Gygax's sake at least TRY it and as many forms as you can before you throw it out.  It's one of the few innovative and daring approaches at the computer RPG space we've ever seen.

Xilren
PS One of my favorite modules is called Bone Kenning, where you got to play a necromancer.  Someone went all out to design a method you could create your own undead pets with different combinations of bones and such and other very nice touches.  I think that module shows what a talented module designer can do.

[Rasix]

Wouldn't playing Planescape Torment or Icewind Dale 1+2 be more fulfilling? Really. I mean NWN is the weakest of the Bioware products imho, and I was lined up on day one to get it. Talk about being ticked off when I started playing. It felt bad from "new game."

Not IWD 2, ugg.  That game left me with a hollow feeling.  There was some good, difficult encounters like you'd expect in an Icewind Dale game, but it ended rather suddenly and the plot was worse than you'd expect. It just seemed like a giant rush job.  I replayed IWD 1 several times, but I think I broke the IWD2 CD over my knee when I finished.

And Soln, which Bioware games had a first person perspective? I'm at a loss to think of one.

[Soln]

Wouldn't playing Planescape Torment or Icewind Dale 1+2 be more fulfilling? Really. I mean NWN is the weakest of the Bioware products imho, and I was lined up on day one to get it. Talk about being ticked off when I started playing. It felt bad from "new game."

Not IWD 2, ugg.  That game left me with a hollow feeling.  There was some good, difficult encounters like you'd expect in an Icewind Dale game, but it ended rather suddenly and the plot was worse than you'd expect. It just seemed like a giant rush job.  I replayed IWD 1 several times, but I think I broke the IWD2 CD over my knee when I finished.

And Soln, which Bioware games had a first person perspective? I'm at a loss to think of one.

ya that's needs context -- none, you're correct.  My complaint was that I found it after awhile unplayable to have the new rendering engine require a flyover mode behind your toon at an angle that exposed tiles ahead.  Wouldve preferred a means to lower beneath the ceiling and maybe a first person view.  Stupid criticism, but broke the game for me.

[Furiously]

NWN's should be - by all accounts be the funnest game there ever was. Only - it's not.

[WayAbvPar]

NWN's should be all accounts be the funnest game there ever was. Only - it's not.

Amen. Such a great idea, but it just flat missed as far as I am concerned. If they could have somehow made the combat turn-based like ToEE, it could have been fun as hell. As it was, it was just a rabid clickfest. It felt like a cheap Diablo knockoff.

The editor was another failure. Not everyone has the time to learn a fucking scripting language just to make their own modules.

[HaemishM]

It needed turn-based action. It also needed an editor that wasn't so goddamn buggy. I swear I burned a good 20 hours trying to create a module, only to find it got corrupted because the fucking program felt like. And that was on top of the 50-bazillion lockup crashes the thing gave me. A more user-friendly scripting system would have been nice as well.

[Furiously]

and maybe models with more then 12 polys.

[schild]

and maybe models with more then 12 polys.

You mean like WoW? I kid, I kid. Well, no, I don't kid. The models in WoW have about 24. ^_^

[shiznitz]

My issue with NWN was that combat took 3 seconds to resolve so most of one's playing time was walking around the map.

[Cheddar]

Knockdown ruined this game.  Otherwise I enjoyed it thoroughly; of course this was during Iraqi Freedom and I had limited entertainment at the time (Yay Sand!).  Yet I will always remember it fondly, even though I have never looked at it since.