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Author Topic: WAR- Computer Games Magazine - May  (Read 57225 times)
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #105 on: April 12, 2006, 05:58:14 AM

I really don't think character balance is incredibly important, especially in a pvp game, the opposing pvp races should be balanced but that's about it.  I seem to remember AC2 was the most balanced game out there.

A couple of jokes below stolen from RhyssaFireheart @Grimwell that I think illustrate the point.

Q: How many rogues does it take to kill a paladin?
A: Two. One engaging the fight and the other one waiting in the inn of ironforge.


--------
An Alliance army is marching across the Barrens to raid Orgrimmar when a shaman comes running up and makes a rude gesture at the general. The general points to 2 of his soldiers and orders them to kill the shaman. The shaman runs away round a mountain and the soldiers follow.

After a few minutes the shaman comes back with no sign of the Alliance soldiers. He insults the general who promptly sends 10 officers to kill the shaman. The shaman runs round the mountain and returns again.

The general getting very annoyed orders 40 men to kill the shaman. They all chase him round the mountain and for 10 minites nothing happens. Then one badly wounded soldier comes back limping and says "Sir, it was a trap! There's two of them!"

Arthur_Parker
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Internet Detective


Reply #106 on: April 21, 2006, 02:29:40 PM

April Newsletter

More videos and info on giants, some info on e3 which I'm hoping someone interested in WAR is going to.
Johny Cee
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Reply #107 on: April 21, 2006, 05:04:34 PM

Quote
In case you missed it, we recently hosted an event for members of the online press here at Mythic. We had a great time with the different reporters, but we had an even better time reading your reactions online afterwards. Keep visiting the forums and letting us know what you think! If you've got a fansite or a forum, won't you email me and let me know? It's Sanya AT mythicentertainment dot com - be sure to put WARHAMMER FANSITE in your subject line. If you've got any other sort of question or feedback, please be sure to use the forms we've set up.

Oooooo.....

Dear Uncle Schild,

Please make Mediocre your official F13 rep to Mythic for the purpose of real-life trolling at one of these.  And make him record and type transcripts.  Pretty please?

Sincerely,

J.
Trippy
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Reply #108 on: April 21, 2006, 05:07:33 PM

Whoa, a Doom Diver. I may actually have to play this game.

Edit: hmm...actually that's more like a kite (there are lines leading down the ground, presumably). Maybe it's some sort of spotter unit.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2006, 05:09:55 PM by Trippy »
eldaec
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Posts: 11838


Reply #109 on: April 21, 2006, 05:26:30 PM

Tweety has started doing a monthly grab bag thing for WAR on the sites linked above...

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/community/grabBag/grabBag_april.php

Quote
Q: How many realms will there be in WAR?

A: Short answer: we are launching with two realms, six armies, and three battlefronts. Each realm is comprised of a loose alliance of armies that have formed out of circumstance (see the game’s backstory for more details) – the Alliance of Order (Dwarfs, High Elves, and the Empire) and the Armies of Destruction (Greenskins, Dark Elves, and Chaos). Everything you do in WAR furthers the cause of your army and thus your realm.

Realm vs. Realm™ combat in WAR centers around the above armies and takes place on one of three fronts where ancient foes battle one another – Dwarfs vs. Greenskins, High Elf vs. Dark Elf, and Empire vs. Chaos humans. Players begin the game fighting their racial enemy, but are later free to journey to other battlefronts to help their allies in the larger struggle.

A particular dark elf, for example, can work with allies to invade the capital cities of the Empire, high elves, or the dwarfs. That same dark elf can choose instead to defend his own lands or those belonging to his Greenskin or Chaos "allies." Assuming his own interests don't incline him towards betrayal, of course.

Bah. This is still all wrong.

The line about betrayal suggests people might be able to change sides. I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea either in terms of matching the IP or in terms of making the game design work. Hmmm.

Also, 2 realms is the wrong number of realms etc etc Orcs shouldn't be on the same side as Chaos Humans blah blah....

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
gimpyone
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Reply #110 on: April 21, 2006, 05:43:05 PM

I like the TM after RVR.  I never played Warhammer except for Dawn of War but neednless to say, the thought of another Mythic game featuring this does make me think of my days in DAOC before the players ruined it with buffbots and radar.  Then ToA came a long and touched my no no spot.
Modern Angel
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Reply #111 on: April 22, 2006, 07:29:57 AM

Mythic, I swear if you wine and dine me then break my heart...

I'm cautiously optimistic about this game with less caution and more optimism as time goes on.
Johny Cee
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Reply #112 on: April 22, 2006, 10:04:55 AM

The line about betrayal suggests people might be able to change sides. I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea either in terms of matching the IP or in terms of making the game design work. Hmmm.

Also, 2 realms is the wrong number of realms etc etc Orcs shouldn't be on the same side as Chaos Humans blah blah....

Well.....

If they go with some kind of dynamic system of alliance....  it could be a major step up from DAoC's populaion issues.  For instance,  Alliance of Destruction outnumbers Order badly, and is kicking the shit out of them.  The devs switch the greenskins so they are either neutral (can attack both sides) or temporarily allied with the alliance of order. 

It would be relatively true to the IP,  and seem to be a better option than bot players.

Mythic has been doing these things with DAoC.  They regularly shift around population bonuses (major bonuses to leveling and xp,  can cut leveling time in half) on DAoC servers now to even things out.  Though the population bonuses don't seem to work too well.
Xanthippe
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Reply #113 on: April 22, 2006, 11:02:39 AM

I have always liked the idea of players being able to switch sides.  Having things like espionage, diplomacy, politics (beyond what already happens in guilds) would be awesome.

But I'm with Modern Angel here on Mythic.

I want to believe Mythic has changed, really, I do.  I want to believe Mythic learned its lesson about ToA, and won't be making that mistake again.  No more nerfing of classes to the point of making them no fun (sniff, and I loved my cave shaman so much).  No more taking months to acknowledge a mistake and more months to attempt a solution.

Eh, who am I kidding?  I'll jump at the chance to be in the beta.  I'll likely preorder the collector's edition (if they have one).  I'll play for at least 3 months, not wanting to believe the bad things I hear, and will have faith they will fix them, despite my past experiences.  I really liked DAOC the first year.

Some people just ask for their hearts to be broken.

eldaec
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Reply #114 on: April 23, 2006, 03:42:49 PM

If they go with some kind of dynamic system of alliance....  it could be a major step up from DAoC's populaion issues.  For instance,  Alliance of Destruction outnumbers Order badly, and is kicking the shit out of them.  The devs switch the greenskins so they are either neutral (can attack both sides) or temporarily allied with the alliance of order.

That will never never never happen. This is why...

1) The game launches with green and chaos on the same side. (God only knows who thought this was an acceptable idea btw)
2) Egro green and chaos will be able to talk and group with each other.
3) Therefore as night follows day, if they cannot guild together the whining will rapidly reach such intensity so as to ensure it gets patched in early (ref: every MMOG ever that didn't allow ARAC guilds within realms)
4) Once realm based ARAC guilds exist, no developer is going to have the balls to sunder them in half by doing something as crazy as reorganising the sides so that they resemble Warhammer.

If they include betrayal it can only concievably mean an Orc joining the Dwarfs. Which will probably exacerbate population issues as everyone flocks to the winning side.   :-(

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Azazel
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Reply #115 on: April 23, 2006, 08:23:55 PM

The only "betrayal" that really fits the IP to me would be:

* Humans selling out Empire to the Skaven for money. Who, um, aren't in the game yet.
* Humans becoming corrupted to the undeads. The Sylvanian counts, anyways, now that Undead are "wet" and "dry".
* Humans/Elves turning to Chaos. Orcs don't really do this. Nor do Dwarfs.
* Chaos guys betraying other chaos guys. Because it's chaos, brah. Tzeentch and all that. The great plan.
* I suppose you could have the "good vampire" thing, or the "chaos warrior tries for redemption" thng. Was that in the Konrad books? I forget.
* Orcs dont much like anyone. They respect strength, but thats about it.
*Dark Elves seem to have the silly "we're all oh so evil" thing happening in their culture. So backstabbing and all that is rife. But this isn't Drizzt, the High elves will gladly KOS them. Maybe they could hide in with the humans, but it's more like internecene warfare. Like the orcs. Or chaos. Or the Empire. Or..


So really, betrayal is rife in Warhammer. Most of it's not faction-changing "betrayal" though.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
pants
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Reply #116 on: April 23, 2006, 08:48:13 PM

* Humans/Elves turning to Chaos. Orcs don't really do this. Nor do Dwarfs.

No Chaos Dwarfs?  I'm sure I remember Chaos Dwarfs, or is my Warhammer IP horribly out of date these days?
Azazel
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Reply #117 on: April 23, 2006, 08:53:21 PM

CDs were written out about 2 editions ago, then brought back in a semi-official way with a Ravening Hordes type list, then were re-introduced as crew for some chaos siege machine which is part of the standard chaos army, though the model designs had reverted back to their original look (think WFB3 chaos warriors and chaos dwarfs) rather then the Byzantine beards and silly giant hats of 4th Ed.

But anyway, they're a society of corrupted dwarfs, like dark elves, rather than good dwarfs gone wild bad.

Also, they're not in the MMO game. (and they're still on the fringes of WFB).


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
5150
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Reply #118 on: April 24, 2006, 01:51:03 AM

* Humans/Elves turning to Chaos. Orcs don't really do this. Nor do Dwarfs.

No Chaos Dwarfs?  I'm sure I remember Chaos Dwarfs, or is my Warhammer IP horribly out of date these days?

No longer are there stunties in big silly hats I'm afraid...

http://groups.msn.com/WarhammerMiniatureGalleries/chaosdwarfs.msnw?action-ShowPhoto&PhotoID=76
eldaec
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Reply #119 on: April 24, 2006, 03:22:34 AM

So really, betrayal is rife in Warhammer. Most of it's not faction-changing "betrayal" though.

And ofc, I shudder to think just how godawful the game might become if non-realm changing types of betrayal are allowed. Imagine an Orc being allowed to let the stunties in the back door of the keep and get rewarded for it, great for RP, crap for community building.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Azazel
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Reply #120 on: April 24, 2006, 07:31:28 AM

Yeah, that's much the same as I was thinking. It's one thing for a corrupt Empire nobleman to turn to Slaanesh, but letting them (or anyone) run espionage against their own race.. well it could be really interesting, or very bad.

OTOH, that might be what that example of taking the plans to the General are about.. the ones that suggest doing the quest "properly might gain you a bunch of exp but no cash, vs selling the plans to the shifty looking goblin for lotsa cash but little xp.


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
tazelbain
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tazelbain


Reply #121 on: April 24, 2006, 07:58:22 AM

Why are you guys still dweebing about the IP, Mythic already said they are only going to follow the IP when it suits them.

"Me am play gods"
Morfiend
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Reply #122 on: April 24, 2006, 10:20:23 AM

* Humans/Elves turning to Chaos. Orcs don't really do this. Nor do Dwarfs.

No Chaos Dwarfs?  I'm sure I remember Chaos Dwarfs, or is my Warhammer IP horribly out of date these days?

No longer are there stunties in big silly hats I'm afraid...

http://groups.msn.com/WarhammerMiniatureGalleries/chaosdwarfs.msnw?action-ShowPhoto&PhotoID=76

This guy rocks.

Arthur_Parker
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Reply #123 on: May 03, 2006, 01:59:06 AM

« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 02:11:12 AM by Arthur_Parker »
schild
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WWW
Reply #124 on: May 03, 2006, 02:06:16 AM

It was fucking CGI!

CGI trailers are wasted effort as far as I'm concerned and I'm fairly sure I'm not just speaking for myself.

Edit: Ok, fine, I thought the orc and dwarf fight was awesome. STILL, CGI. Heh.
HRose
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VIKLAS!


WWW
Reply #125 on: May 03, 2006, 04:32:53 AM

It's not even "effort" since Mythic is outsourcing all that.

Just a spot.

-HRose / Abalieno
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angry.bob
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Reply #126 on: May 03, 2006, 07:03:27 AM

Dark Elf sorceress FTW. Sure it's CG, but everything about it was great.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Murgos
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Reply #127 on: May 03, 2006, 11:23:17 AM

Dark Elf sorceress FTW. Sure it's CG, but everything about it was great.

Which part was better?  The bikini top?  Or the bikini bottom?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
angry.bob
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Reply #128 on: May 03, 2006, 11:37:50 AM

Dark Elf sorceress FTW. Sure it's CG, but everything about it was great.

Which part was better?  The bikini top?  Or the bikini bottom?
Doh, i meant everything about the trailer was great. The Orcapult was the best part and made me miss the old days of having Orcy Event cards. The slayer/boss fight was good. The Witch Elf was good, but the Orc stuff was better. Though it would be cool if they carry the ass-floss loincloth and pasties sling into the game. The internet is old enough that porn featuring real humanoids no longer does it for me.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Simond
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Reply #129 on: May 04, 2006, 05:38:58 AM

I love the sly dig at the very start of the vid. :D

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Pococurante
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Reply #130 on: May 04, 2006, 08:17:05 PM

Though it would be cool if they carry the ass-floss loincloth and pasties sling into the game.

L.A.F.F.!!!

Ah I do adore the bitchin' babes.
Azazel
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Reply #131 on: May 05, 2006, 12:07:05 AM

It was fucking CGI!

CGI trailers are wasted effort as far as I'm concerned and I'm fairly sure I'm not just speaking for myself.

Edit: Ok, fine, I thought the orc and dwarf fight was awesome. STILL, CGI. Heh.

Well, yeah, but it's supposed to get you hyped, in the same way that the nice video for WoW did, or the intro vid to Dawn of War. It was disappointing to not see an equally-inspiring FMV intro for the DoW expansion..


I love the sly dig at the very start of the vid. :D

I must have missed it? Unless you mean the "25 years of Warhammer" bit which I read as "fuck you if you think we're ripping off WoW". ;)


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
JoeTF
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Reply #132 on: May 05, 2006, 12:42:06 AM

Chaos does not equal evil.


Yup. After two years of playing on WH based mud I can tell you one thing - chaos equals G A N K I N G. On a scale unseen before.
Simond
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Reply #133 on: May 05, 2006, 05:47:14 AM

I must have missed it? Unless you mean the "25 years of Warhammer" bit which I read as "fuck you if you think we're ripping off WoW". ;)
Pretty much, yeah - especially as the WoW intro starts with 'Ten Years of Warcraft' ;)

"You're really a good person, aren't you? So, there's no path for you to take here. Go home. This isn't a place for someone like you."
Azazel
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Reply #134 on: May 05, 2006, 06:11:21 AM

Ah makes sense then. I haven't watched the WoW one for awhile.

I still kind of wonder why there's still no movement on a 40k CRPG or MMORPG. The 40k universe is a lot more popular than the WFB world, and much more unique (and even more derivitive, edmittedly). Maybe it's because the Warhammer name isn't as strong in Computer-land as others, so the fantasy arm is better suited to get recognition to people that already understand orcs vs elves...

A good persistant Necromunda game would be great, actually.


http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Arthur_Parker
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Reply #135 on: May 05, 2006, 06:28:47 AM

I'm stealing again from Garthilk's website.

He just posted an Interview with Erik Mogensen of Games Workshop small part quoted below.

Quote
When the initial idea comes to create a new product what are the main considerations for Games Workshop when creating a new license based on the Warhammer game?

We have to feel like it's a type of product that suits the Warhammer IP. For example, it's pretty easy to see that an MMO set in the Warhammer World could work, and could rock. Black Orc pillow cases on the other hand... A bit more of a stretch and not something we're likely to be interested in. Another factor is money, of course. Any prospective licensee needs to provide us with a comprehensive business plan and needs to convince us they can deliver a certain amount of financial success. By far the most important factor however, is that we need to 'click' with the licensee. That might sound weird, but we really only want to work with people that share our love of our worlds and we see working with them as more than just a commercial exercise. Sometimes when I'm with the guys from Mythic it feels like we actually work for the same company - now that's a perfect licensing partner.

With so many fans of both Warhammer and Warhammer 40k would you someday like to see a 40k MMO?

Of course we'd like to consider it. Who doesn't want to play a Space Marine?! However, we've got quite a lot on our plates at the moment so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

After the success of Dawn of War and the upcoming Mark of Chaos, along with WAR, is it safe to say that Games Workshop is embracing computer gaming more ever before? What do you believe has encouraged this growth?

We've always embraced computer gaming... Perhaps the world is just embracing computer games set in our worlds more than before? The thing is, for a company like GW with great IP but no expertise in making computer games, the key to success in this market is finding strong partners. Given what I already said about what we look for in a partner that can be extremely hard to do. We've been very picky, and as a result have ended up with 3 very strong like-minded interactive partners. The quality of all the games you mentioned is testament to that.

I'm betting that if WAR is a success then 40k will get the green light fairly quickly.
Azazel
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Reply #136 on: May 05, 2006, 06:50:16 AM

Depends on what though, Having a 40k and WFB MMOg out at the same time would split a lot of their userbase when they'd be better off just trying to see how well they go against, say, Vanguard or the SOE stable. Why cripple your own game like EQ2 did if it's a success?

40k should possibly go the action route. Something like a BF2 with persistant stats would be perfect, but even a well-done SP-FPS on the Doom3/HL2 engine would be a good entry. Be a Space Marine, hell they could revive the Space Hulk FPS assuming EA doesn't have any longterm hooks into it, and a lot of people seem to look back on SH fondly.

http://azazelx.wordpress.com/ - My Miniatures and Hobby Blog.
Typhon
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Reply #137 on: May 05, 2006, 10:17:20 AM

...

That will never never never happen. This is why...

1) The game launches with green and chaos on the same side. (God only knows who thought this was an acceptable idea btw)
2) Egro green and chaos will be able to talk and group with each other.
3) Therefore as night follows day, if they cannot guild together the whining will rapidly reach such intensity so as to ensure it gets patched in early (ref: every MMOG ever that didn't allow ARAC guilds within realms)
4) Once realm based ARAC guilds exist, no developer is going to have the balls to sunder them in half by doing something as crazy as reorganising the sides so that they resemble Warhammer.

If they include betrayal it can only concievably mean an Orc joining the Dwarfs. Which will probably exacerbate population issues as everyone flocks to the winning side.   :-(


Unless the developer is willing to include server transfers into their roadmap up front and make it a part of the server/game fiction.  i.e. Server A has a population imbalance (or just simple overcrowding).  Server "Race War" is brought online and the sides are defined as o-human + c-human, l-elf + d-elf, greenskin + dorf.  Folks choose to migrate ("betray" based upon the knowledge of what you're getting into).

AND/OR, the developer creates "cutthroat" severs and states up front - "on cutthroat servers alliances are temporary.  chat/guilds will be enabled for the duration of the alliance, but at some point all alliances will fail".  Players can only bitch about dynamics servers for so long before they put up (and play along), or shut up (and stop bitching about servers not having dynamic/changing stories).

course, this is all just my bullshit opinion.
Nija
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Reply #138 on: May 05, 2006, 10:48:58 AM

The more time goes by the more I'm actually KINDA looking forward to this game. I just don't think Mythic can pull off anything worthwhile, so I'm not getting my hopes up.
eldaec
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Reply #139 on: May 05, 2006, 11:34:20 AM

Unless the developer is willing to include server transfers into their roadmap up front and make it a part of the server/game fiction.  i.e. Server A has a population imbalance (or just simple overcrowding).  Server "Race War" is brought online and the sides are defined as o-human + c-human, l-elf + d-elf, greenskin + dorf.  Folks choose to migrate ("betray" based upon the knowledge of what you're getting into).

AND/OR, the developer creates "cutthroat" severs and states up front - "on cutthroat servers alliances are temporary.  chat/guilds will be enabled for the duration of the alliance, but at some point all alliances will fail".  Players can only bitch about dynamics servers for so long before they put up (and play along), or shut up (and stop bitching about servers not having dynamic/changing stories).

I agree this would be cool.

I don't think for one moment that the collective wisdom of VNboard posters will put up with it.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
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